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<blockquote data-quote="Scott_S" data-source="post: 4874599" data-attributes="member: 84637">I think those &quot;champion&quot; arrays are less useful in practice than they might seem, though.I mean, look at them:16&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 1016&nbsp; &nbsp; 13&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 1215&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 1214&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 814&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; 1014&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 13&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 1014&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 1114&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 13&nbsp; &nbsp; 13&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 12Of these 8 arrays, I'd consider only the first one competitive, because in 4e, having a high bonus in your primary stat is of great importance.&nbsp; With less than a +3 bonus, you're decidedly weakening yourself.&nbsp; A +3 bonus is about par, and requires either a 16 or a 14 plus racial bonus.However, to be really competent, you'll generally want an 18 in that primary stat, which means a 16 in your starting array plus a favorable race.&nbsp; Only the first two options offer that, and the 16/14 array (offering a secondary +2, three +1s, and a +0) is clearly better than the 16/13 array (offering five +1s), because no reasonable build requires bonuses in all six stats.(I suppose a bard who really pushed the jack-of-all-trades thing might go for the 16/13 array, but he'd be pretty incompetent with any attack that relied on a +1 stat.)Now, of the 7-point arrays, we could have:16&nbsp; &nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; 8This is one of my favorite arrays.&nbsp; It provides an 18 primary after racial, a 16 or 18 secondary, and two +1s.&nbsp; A single -1 is not a problem for most builds.&nbsp; The 12s will meet many prerequisites by paragon level, and can be bumped a point to meet a 15 prerequisite by epic if necessary (or two points to meet it by paragon).&nbsp; The tertiary stat will be a little weak without bumping, but many builds don't really have a firm tertiary stat.&nbsp; In addition, there are enough bonuses to spread around to ensure at least a small boost to all defenses.16&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 13&nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; 8This is a solid array when a tertiary stat is necessary.&nbsp; You still get the 18 primary, a 14 or 16 secondary and tertiary, and an additional +1, which ensures decent defenses all around.&nbsp; The 13 also qualifies for many feats, and will be a 15 by epic without boosting.&nbsp; The single -1 is again not an issue for most builds.16&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp; 8A slight variation of the above.&nbsp; This one pushes off the &quot;feat qualifier&quot; 13 in exchange for reaching a 12 in the fifth stat faster.&nbsp; I prefer the one above, but this one is stronger if for some reason you need to place your four top stats into two of the &quot;linked pairs&quot;, leaving you with one low defense.&nbsp; It's also a little better if you need two 13s in otherwise unimportant ability scores in order to qualify for feats.16&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; 10Another variation on 16/14/14, this is generally weaker than the above two, but it's a prime option if you really want to avoid taking a negative.&nbsp; You get an 18 primary after racial, a 14 or 16 secondary and tertiary, no negatives, and the 11 lets you qualify for feats and (if necessary) get a small defense bonus, with some bumping.The 18 arrays are also worth considering in some cases:18,14,11,10,10,818,13,13,10,10,818,13,12,11,10,8These have very small bonuses overall because of the opportunity cost of getting that 18.&nbsp; However, they're the only way to start out with a +5 bonus (after modifier).&nbsp; For builds that rely mainly on a single stat (like many wizard builds), it might be worth the sacrifice.&nbsp; 18/14/11 gives a decent secondary, 18/13/13 and 18/13/12 offer some easier feat qualifications and, possibly, bonuses to each defense.I don't see any of the champion arrays beating these out in actual play.&nbsp; 16/14/12 might be on-par, but I don't see it as superior.&nbsp; Focusing for a couple of strong bonuses is usually the better option in 4e than spreading lots of little ones around.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Scott_S, post: 4874599, member: 84637"] I think those "champion" arrays are less useful in practice than they might seem, though. I mean, look at them: [B]16 14 12 12 12 10 16 13 12 12 12 12 15 14 12 12 12 12 14 14 14 14 12 8 14 14 14 14 10 10 14 14 14 13 12 10 14 14 14 12 12 11 14 14 13 13 12 12[/B] Of these 8 arrays, I'd consider only the first one competitive, because in 4e, having a high bonus in your primary stat is of great importance. With less than a +3 bonus, you're decidedly weakening yourself. A +3 bonus is about par, and requires either a 16 or a 14 plus racial bonus. However, to be really competent, you'll generally want an 18 in that primary stat, which means a 16 in your starting array plus a favorable race. Only the first two options offer that, and the 16/14 array (offering a secondary +2, three +1s, and a +0) is clearly better than the 16/13 array (offering five +1s), because no reasonable build requires bonuses in all six stats. (I suppose a bard who really pushed the jack-of-all-trades thing might go for the 16/13 array, but he'd be pretty incompetent with any attack that relied on a +1 stat.) Now, of the 7-point arrays, we could have: [B]16 16 12 12 10 8[/B] This is one of my favorite arrays. It provides an 18 primary after racial, a 16 or 18 secondary, and two +1s. A single -1 is not a problem for most builds. The 12s will meet many prerequisites by paragon level, and can be bumped a point to meet a 15 prerequisite by epic if necessary (or two points to meet it by paragon). The tertiary stat will be a little weak without bumping, but many builds don't really have a firm tertiary stat. In addition, there are enough bonuses to spread around to ensure at least a small boost to all defenses. [B]16 14 14 13 10 8[/B] This is a solid array when a tertiary stat is necessary. You still get the 18 primary, a 14 or 16 secondary and tertiary, and an additional +1, which ensures decent defenses all around. The 13 also qualifies for many feats, and will be a 15 by epic without boosting. The single -1 is again not an issue for most builds. [B]16 14 14 12 11 8[/B] A slight variation of the above. This one pushes off the "feat qualifier" 13 in exchange for reaching a 12 in the fifth stat faster. I prefer the one above, but this one is stronger if for some reason you need to place your four top stats into two of the "linked pairs", leaving you with one low defense. It's also a little better if you need two 13s in otherwise unimportant ability scores in order to qualify for feats. [B]16 14 14 11 10 10[/B] Another variation on 16/14/14, this is generally weaker than the above two, but it's a prime option if you really want to avoid taking a negative. You get an 18 primary after racial, a 14 or 16 secondary and tertiary, no negatives, and the 11 lets you qualify for feats and (if necessary) get a small defense bonus, with some bumping. The 18 arrays are also worth considering in some cases: [B]18,14,11,10,10,8 18,13,13,10,10,8 18,13,12,11,10,8 [/B]These have very small bonuses overall because of the opportunity cost of getting that 18. However, they're the only way to start out with a +5 bonus (after modifier). For builds that rely mainly on a single stat (like many wizard builds), it might be worth the sacrifice. 18/14/11 gives a decent secondary, 18/13/13 and 18/13/12 offer some easier feat qualifications and, possibly, bonuses to each defense. I don't see any of the champion arrays beating these out in actual play. 16/14/12 might be on-par, but I don't see it as superior. Focusing for a couple of strong bonuses is usually the better option in 4e than spreading lots of little ones around. [/QUOTE]

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