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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8695002" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Re: performance magic and other such things, again, I am incredibly confused as to how people can think this is the same as illusionism at the gaming table.Magic--at least, of the type performed as "magic tricks"--isn't real. Anyone who believes magic is real is simply mistaken. The illusion of performance magic being real, rather than being cleverness, cold reading, sleight of hand, and other such techniques, is necessary for the "tricks" to appear impressive. You cannot even in principle impress people with sleight-of-hand where from the very start they can see exactly what you're doing and how you're doing it. It's like (in fact, essentially identical to) explaining a joke: if you explain the trick, you kill the trick. The trick doesn't work without the illusion.But DMing is completely different. In fact, diametrically opposite. The illusion IS NOT necessary. It is completely, 100% optional. You can (as I have) completely avoid all illusionism, of any form whatsoever, and run a game your players consistently love. (I hesitate to say I run a great game, but my players have liked it four four years running and almost never have negative feedback, so...) You DO NOT have any need, whatsoever, to trick anyone about anything in order to run a successful and enjoyable game.The fact that the one thing critically depends on the illusion--that, without the illusion, the there is no magic--while the other has no dependence on the illusion whatsoever--that the game may be good, bad, or indifferent regardless of whether there is the illusion of choice or not--is a vital difference which demonstrates the failure of the analogy.And that's before we even get into the fact that adults should absolutely know, in advance, that a magic trick--given it's literally called a "trick"--should be understood as an illusion right out the gate. The magician is putting on a show, and the audience knows, in advance, that they will be presented with something that is not what it appears to be. That is emphatically the opposite of railroading. With railroading, as [USER=6779196]@Charlaquin[/USER] said, the goal is to prevent the players from ever finding out that there was an illusion. It is to enforce upon all players that they be, as [USER=6684958]@bloodtide[/USER] put it, "the clueless."Thing is? People don't like being made to be "the clueless." In fact, a lot of people really, really hate being made to be "the clueless." It makes them feel hurt and angry. It makes them feel like their goodwill has been exploited, and like the trust they placed in the person who made them "the clueless" has been pissed on. If the person happens to be "the clueless" just because, e.g. they just never thought about the issue before, it wasn't something hidden from them they just literally never realized it, they will usually feel embarrassed and self-conscious. Those may not be as bad as feeling angry and betrayed, but they're still negative feelings that I wouldn't want my players to feel as a result of my actions at my gaming table.A magician does her tricks with a wink and a nod, and people willingly play along. A railroading/fudging DM does his deception totally silently, actively trying to deny even the possibility that someone could find out, actively working to lock all participants into "the clueless" role and ONLY that role. The two are not the same, and the fact that someone likes the former and HATES the latter should not be surprising to anyone.</blockquote>

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