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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8701227" data-attributes="member: 6790260">It's worth emphasizing the extremes being presented here.The example that was being discussed at the time of your quote from Max, over ten pages ago, was a combat which is not logically required to happen (e.g., not the same as &quot;the campaign premise is you start with a prison break, SOME kind of fight is unavoidable&quot;), but which the DM ensures absolutely will happen no matter what the players choose (e.g. &quot;it doesn't matter which direction you go, you will run into and have to fight Bandit Lord Al-Hazen.&quot;) That's fairly clearly not respecting player agency. That is not at all the same as saying player agency is combat-avoidance. Whereas the claim made above was not only very specific, but went much further than just avoidance; it included mean-spirited celebration and active, gleeful efforts to destroy DM prep work. Explicitly it involved the players bragging about preventing the DM from using prepared stuff.Saying, &quot;Agency means embracing things like the possibility that the players choose things which invalidate your prep work&quot; does not, at all, whatsoever, mean saying, &quot;Agency is very specifically players maliciously trying to waste the DM's time, and then bragging about their successful rejection of work the DM put into the game.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8701227, member: 6790260"] It's worth emphasizing the extremes being presented here. The example that was being discussed at the time of your quote from Max, over ten pages ago, was a combat which is not [I]logically required[/I] to happen (e.g., not the same as "the campaign premise is you start with a prison break, SOME kind of fight is unavoidable"), but which the DM ensures [I]absolutely will[/I] happen no matter what the players choose (e.g. "it doesn't matter which direction you go, you will run into and have to fight Bandit Lord Al-Hazen.") That's fairly clearly not respecting player agency. That is not at all the same as saying player agency [I]is[/I] combat-avoidance. Whereas the claim made above was not only very specific, but went much further than just avoidance; it included mean-spirited celebration and active, gleeful efforts to destroy DM prep work. Explicitly it involved the players [I]bragging[/I] about preventing the DM from using prepared stuff. Saying, "Agency means embracing things like the possibility that the players choose things which invalidate your prep work" does not, at all, whatsoever, mean saying, "Agency is very specifically players maliciously trying to waste the DM's time, and then bragging about their successful rejection of work the DM put into the game." [/QUOTE]

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