NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6040231" data-attributes="member: 4937">I'd like to state that a different way.  "All classes should be broad enough that if everyone in the party was the same class, there would still be room to make every PC distinctive."IMO all these 3 classes could be split into styles as follows: - Is a charismatic and/or intelligent fighter that favors winning combats with his mind rather than with brute force.  If the fighter class can't incorporate leaders of fighting men, then its not broad enough. - Is not a class.  A 'class' that implies culture, beliefs, or personality is not broad enough.  Barbarian is background, and a 'barbarian' could be any sort of class whatsoever.  The concept underlying what is thought of as a barbarian ('beserk warrior') is broader than the background itself, and includes such things as patriots, templars, and really anything that relies on emotion, fury, and zeal to push themselves into feats that they couldn't otherwise do.  I call this class in my game 'Fanatic' and it really has nothing at all to do with having the 'barbarian' background. - Again, this is a background and not a class.  Since pretty much every PC class can be good at killing things, any class could have this background - the cleric of a death god, a fighter that works as a hit man, a stealthy rogue sniper, a dead or alive type bounty hunter, a wizard specializing in save or suck/die spells, even an expert that simply is good with poisons, disguises, and subterfuge.  So some blend of any of these.Of the classic base classes, I consider the following to be subclasses rather than classes:Barbarian - Subclass of Fanatic (cultural baggage must also be removed)Paladin - Subclass of Champion, wrongly limited to 'good' or 'lawful good' and indeed to very narrow models of what is 'good'.  (For example, not all good philosophies would choose smiting things as being an example of the highest degree of virtue.)Ranger - A very narrow multiclass build based on a Hunter/Explorer/Shaman type class.  Lots and lots of baggage, none of which is necessary.  Basic ideas of 'Hunter' and 'Explorer' need to be removed to separate classes and expanded on.Druid - Subclass of Shaman (cultural baggage must be removed).  Lots and lots of baggage, much of which makes the class OP.Sorcerer - Subclass of itself, with an unnecessary lack of identifying features beyond different mechanical variation.  Bloodline requires more exploration to give the class diversity.Assassin - A very narrow multiclass build based on a Rouge/Hunter/Wizard type class.   No pressing need for a separate class provided your base classes are strong enough.Monk - Subclass of Fighter, specializing in hand to hand combat and 'ki' type powers, with possible dips into some sort of Paragon or Shaman/Mystic/Wizard type concept.  Never has really worked right as a base class, and has a hodgepodge of largely unrelated abilities on a very fixed progression.  Way too much cultural baggage, and too much implied personality.  Concept needs to be taken apart and its abilities put in the proper silo.Psion - Subclass of Sorcerer or possibly Wizard, with little excuse for its existence other than it supports an variant/alternative magic system.  IMO, use the Psion as the Wizard/Sorcerer or the Wizard/Sorcerer, but not both.  Both constitutes mechanical variation for its own sake, in that you are mostly choosing a perferred game mechanic, not a preferred class/concept. I consider 3.0's clerical domains as an example of a fairly elegant mechanism for rendering subclass into a sufficiently broad base class.   Likewise, I consider the 3.0 Fighter class with its 'select fighting powers to taste' to be an elegant in concept means of attaining this goal, if however lacking in the implementation (since 3.X feats are overly weak and conservative in their design as shown by the need to create 'prestige classes' to fill in the gaps).</blockquote>

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