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All classes should be broad enough to be split into subclasses
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6041084" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Wait a minute... I said Barbarian is a 'background'. I did not say that Barbarian is s culture, because it isn't. 'Druid' is an implied culture, but Barbarian is a culture only to the extent that you fall into the trap of 'Barbarian' equals 'Norse Berserker', which was clearly never the original intention of the class. The background 'Barbarian' actually encompasses many many cultures with often highly differing cultural beliefs and values. </p><p></p><p>Since 'Barbarian' as a word only means, "Foreigners that I consider more primitive than myself", in a setting, the background "Barbarian" can encompass all sorts of things. Conan as the archetypal 'Barbarian' is a primitive mainly in the sense that his people are considered primitives by the more urbane dwellers of the South and that as such, he is racially and culturally distinct from them. Given a presumed steel age quasi-medieval setting, the 'Barbarian' background can refer to people coming from virtually any more primitive culture, from stone-age peoples to iron age nomads to fringe groups who've managed to retain their independence and some sembelence of their earlier tribal culture. This background could be inspired by sub-saharan Africans, Arab tribesman, Polynesian seafarers, new world civilizations like the Mayans, Aztecs, or Incans, medieval Scots, medieval Norse or ancient Gauls or Britons, steppe wanders like the Scythians, Huns, Mongols, iron age Germanic peoples like the Vandals and Visigoths, Celts, pre-Kingship Jewish peoples, North American or Austrialian aboriginals, headhunters from New Guinea, the Maori, or any number of other groups which at one time or the other neighbored more 'advanced' civilizations. </p><p></p><p>And note that 'advanced' is quite properly in scare quotes here. Because the quality of Norse and Scythian metal work was very good, the Mongols had more advanced command and control and logistics than the Europeans, and stone age Polynesians and Norse exceeded their neighbors in sea faring techology and skill. Nonetheless, all fit into the notion of 'Barbarians' and 'barbarian hordes' and cultures inspired by them are likely to be the 'barbaric' cultures of a given world from which the 'barbaric' background fits.</p><p></p><p>Now, within these cultures it is easy to see that one class or race does not cover the background. There are pirates, bandits, thieves, artisans, scholars, priests, nobles, magicians, merchants, herdsman, farmers, and more in such cultures. Sure, they may be rather more adapted to self-sufficiency, life in the wilderness and enduring the rigors of travel than their more civilized kin, but beyond that there is little we can that they have in common. The most common class among barbarians in my game world isn't Barbarian - or even its homebrew Generic cousin Fanatic; it's Hunter. Hunter is the generic version of Ranger, stripped of its unnecessary mystical aspects. The second most common is probably Explorer, a generic wander/adventurer class. Fanatics don't even show up in every barbaric culture (though they are common), just the ones that maintain special warrior cults (Norse, Maori, Jewish, Gaul, and Aztec inspired cultures come to mind).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A human subrace? In addition to bordering on offending people sensitive to racial slights, intended or not, the big problem I have with that is putting a Maori inspired peoples and a Norse inspired peoples in the same subrace and just calling it good.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In my current campaign, the barbarians nearest to where the PC's have been adventuring are all Elves.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Remember what I said about making mistakes as a designer in assuming that everyone that wants to play your fantasy game also wants to play in your setting? It sounds to me in this discussion that you are increasingly not designing for a fantasy game which would suit everyone who has been playing D&D over the last 30 years, but which suits your particular setting specificly.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6041084, member: 4937"] Wait a minute... I said Barbarian is a 'background'. I did not say that Barbarian is s culture, because it isn't. 'Druid' is an implied culture, but Barbarian is a culture only to the extent that you fall into the trap of 'Barbarian' equals 'Norse Berserker', which was clearly never the original intention of the class. The background 'Barbarian' actually encompasses many many cultures with often highly differing cultural beliefs and values. Since 'Barbarian' as a word only means, "Foreigners that I consider more primitive than myself", in a setting, the background "Barbarian" can encompass all sorts of things. Conan as the archetypal 'Barbarian' is a primitive mainly in the sense that his people are considered primitives by the more urbane dwellers of the South and that as such, he is racially and culturally distinct from them. Given a presumed steel age quasi-medieval setting, the 'Barbarian' background can refer to people coming from virtually any more primitive culture, from stone-age peoples to iron age nomads to fringe groups who've managed to retain their independence and some sembelence of their earlier tribal culture. This background could be inspired by sub-saharan Africans, Arab tribesman, Polynesian seafarers, new world civilizations like the Mayans, Aztecs, or Incans, medieval Scots, medieval Norse or ancient Gauls or Britons, steppe wanders like the Scythians, Huns, Mongols, iron age Germanic peoples like the Vandals and Visigoths, Celts, pre-Kingship Jewish peoples, North American or Austrialian aboriginals, headhunters from New Guinea, the Maori, or any number of other groups which at one time or the other neighbored more 'advanced' civilizations. And note that 'advanced' is quite properly in scare quotes here. Because the quality of Norse and Scythian metal work was very good, the Mongols had more advanced command and control and logistics than the Europeans, and stone age Polynesians and Norse exceeded their neighbors in sea faring techology and skill. Nonetheless, all fit into the notion of 'Barbarians' and 'barbarian hordes' and cultures inspired by them are likely to be the 'barbaric' cultures of a given world from which the 'barbaric' background fits. Now, within these cultures it is easy to see that one class or race does not cover the background. There are pirates, bandits, thieves, artisans, scholars, priests, nobles, magicians, merchants, herdsman, farmers, and more in such cultures. Sure, they may be rather more adapted to self-sufficiency, life in the wilderness and enduring the rigors of travel than their more civilized kin, but beyond that there is little we can that they have in common. The most common class among barbarians in my game world isn't Barbarian - or even its homebrew Generic cousin Fanatic; it's Hunter. Hunter is the generic version of Ranger, stripped of its unnecessary mystical aspects. The second most common is probably Explorer, a generic wander/adventurer class. Fanatics don't even show up in every barbaric culture (though they are common), just the ones that maintain special warrior cults (Norse, Maori, Jewish, Gaul, and Aztec inspired cultures come to mind). A human subrace? In addition to bordering on offending people sensitive to racial slights, intended or not, the big problem I have with that is putting a Maori inspired peoples and a Norse inspired peoples in the same subrace and just calling it good. In my current campaign, the barbarians nearest to where the PC's have been adventuring are all Elves. Remember what I said about making mistakes as a designer in assuming that everyone that wants to play your fantasy game also wants to play in your setting? It sounds to me in this discussion that you are increasingly not designing for a fantasy game which would suit everyone who has been playing D&D over the last 30 years, but which suits your particular setting specificly. [/QUOTE]
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