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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 5747370" data-attributes="member: 92511">Oh, ok. I thought by your response that you were advocating the 6 abilities....cuz of the probabilities/statistics...my bad.I'm sorry, Hass. This made me laugh.My ability is "X" and I receive "X bonuses to this or that" that is presented in a simple list of Ability Score tables is "complicated"? Moreso than "Take your ability, subtract 10, divide it by 2" or "a custom modifier table would be easier to understand"...?I do think, getting something for each ability point makes sense...and is easy. Note how they/you end up with a max modifier of "+4" in any/all cases? All Fours D&D ( or "Fantasy game Throw Down", rather. lol.)!Luck o' the draw (dice), my friend. Luck o' the dice.Nothing says a DM (or player can request), who wants a certain style campaign, can't allow re-rolls to Abilities. I would certainly not put anything in "rules" prohibiting it.If I were a DM and my player was sorely unhappy with their rolls, I would most likely allow them to re-roll. Or re-roll the main attribute for the class they wanted to play, at least.  The game is meant to be fun, after all. If the player is going to be pouty/upset/disappointed with their abilities, then there's no reason to force them to play it.That said, some RPers LIKE having to play the challenges presented by the dice...plus it opens things up to quests to gain items to improve their "X" or "Y" ability.The game was never assumed to allow players automatic "good" (bonus level) Abilities! Especially if you went strictly by the original "roll 3d6, in order" method of ability score generation.I was thinking about this...and basically would consider anything below 8 "substandard/sub-average"...but at the same time...I don't want to penalize players for the luck of the dice...but it would seem to be a necessary "evil", if you would.Commoners have 8-10 Strength, 8-10 Intelligence, etc. Adventuers/would-be Heroes are [supposed to be] a cut above.So yeah, anything below an 8, figure the same things as presented in bonuses with -1 for a score of 7, -2 with a score of 6, up (or "down", rather) to -4 for a score of 4. These PCs (with a -4 penalty to any given score) would really be...detrimental to any party's success (if Role=layed  to their abilities...which I would venture to say, "correctly").I would expect, DMs (and, more importantly, Players!) would need/allow a re-roll for scores this low. You [as an adventurer] are supposed to be "above the average commoner/man" after all.I'm not sure I understand...that they could be use different Defenses to roll against the same thing? I don't think I agree with that.And why wouldn't that be the case anyway?I would certainly consider a trip a roll against Reflex (though I def. can't see myself making a PC roll for a "trip"). A roll against Dragon Breath would be a Reflex also. No matter how "smart" or "charismatic" you are, you're either within the area of "exhaled fiery death" or not...or partially in it. A vampire's "dominate gaze" would certainly be a Will roll (as would any "charm" effect.Yeah, that's not happening...not in my games, anyway. The magic item thing, I mean.You find what you find. You get (or sell) what you get (or sell). No "wish lists"! No "expectation of cool things." If you want an awesome magical "flaming sword of killing things dead and sucking their souls"...then you (or probably your MU) research it....you hunt for it...you find/win it or don't/die trying.As for the Defenses thing...yeah, I'm not sure what you mean. Again, forgive my complete ignorance in the 3-3.Xe mode of doing things. Never played it.Well, yes, each class would have its own progression...possibly with racial modifiers...but generally, things would increase...just guessing/off the top of my head, in increments of 4 every 4 levels....or if that seems too extreme an increase of power, as characters progress, how about increments of 2 every 2 levels?...so your score goes up 4 for every 4 levels you have. Means that PCs will be looking forward to that "bump up" at 3rd level in the beginner set...and receive another bump up at 5th (in the "Expert/Second Tier/Champion" rules. Is that what you mean?+10 (which would probably be couched as +8 or, next bump, +12) would be equally "good" in different things for different things! There is no reason someone who can hit well (+8 to hit/attack) would or should automatically be as effective in other things (+8 to Will, to borrow your vampire dominate example) The idea is, at least as the perception I am working with, a Cleric (high Will bonus) will never (or only in rare instances) be as effective in combat as a Fighter (high Str./Fort. bonus). And a Fighter (high Fort. bonus) will never be as effective in avoiding charm/domination as a Cleric (high Will bonus). Each character....each Class has their specialties and advantages. ..requiring the "balance" (and enforcing the trope) of a mixed-class party being the most effective/likely to succeed (Note: NOT "win", but "succeed"!).Because your MU isn't as good as "diving aside from the incoming dragon breath" as the Thief, doesn't make your PC any "less" valuable a character...not to my mind/kind of game, at least.You [the MU, let's say] are good at and capable of things the Thief is not...and that goes across the board, Fighters v. MUs, Clerics v. Thieves, Thieves v. Fighters, etc. etc...I see that. hahaha...though I'm not entirely sure what that means.Isn't a set of mechanics that applies across the board to all characters/classes (some things better for some classes than others and vice versa) still "universal mechanics"?Everyone is being offered the same bonuses or penalties...based off their ability score. Can a player with a Fighter have/choose to have a high(er) Int.? Or a Cleric with a higher Dex? Sure. Why not?Seems to me, that's all for player choice and preference of the kind of character they want and how much into RPing they like/want to put into the "average Presence" Cleric or the "high Str" MU (because they want the HP bump and attack bumps for those unfortunate incidences when they are forced into hand-to-hand combat) or whatever. [Again, totally ignorant of 3e, but...] Yeah, for HP I was basically considering using the Basic model, automatic full at 1st level (+any Strength/Body modifier).So, Cleric start with 8 HP +d8/level (possibly with modifiers), Fighters get 10 HP +d10/level (almost certainly with modifiers), MUs get 4 +d4 per level (unlikely to have any Str. modifier), Thieves get 6 +d6/level (possibly with a modifier...if the player was trying to create a "tough/thuggy thief" for example).I do not understand what you mean by "hit points v. damage to consider." Sorry.Well, I would say the way bonuses/penalties are applied, Abilities and Defenses work/contribute and Combat rules are all "important" to a cohesive/enjoyable game.But thanks for all of the attention and thought on the matter(s). It is all food for thought.--SD</blockquote>

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