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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 5761158" data-attributes="member: 92511"><invoke best "possessed Sigorney Weaver" voice> "There is no 'Feats' only 'Skills.'"</invoke><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Thus we venture into the precariously balanced realm of "The All-Fours Game sits on the edge of a knife. Falter but a little and it will fail." The legendary "Wicket of Stickiness" between playstyles.  IOW, How much/what to incorporate from 3e for a "simplified" game?My own decades of pre-3e experience has shown me over and over again that "Feats" are not at all necessary, as pinpointed prescribed "rules", for a character "do something cool."  That is an intriguing concept. However, I feel, that delves way too far into the area of minutia than I am interested in incorporating. As I've presented, someone choosing the Longsword as one of their Weapon Skills (proficiencies) can use a longsword. I don't see a need for additional "rules" (separate "feats") to know how to swing a long sword.    I see what you're getting at...and yes, things would stack/work something like this...though I doubt I would include anything called "Defensive Stance" and, again, see no reason a whole separate category of bookkeeping "Feats" is required. But yeah, you could take various skills to add to your to hit and/or damage and/or add to your AC.Ehm...that isn't what the Fighter is already...by definition? I was already thinking of a Skill for "Weapon Mastery" (functioning similar to ye olde "Specialization"). Gives a +1 to hit and damage and then increases, regardless of Strength, as the PC gains levels (going up +1 every other level, I think I said, to a max of +4 at 7th). It might even be an "innate" skill for Fighters (or I might move it there), I don't quite recall just now. And the other Skills they have to choose from will reflect/offer bonuses to their combat effectiveness moreso than other classes.They already do have innate sets of weapons available to them. The Fighter is the only class (of these beginner original 4) that has access to any weapon.Elaborate please. I fail to see why...other than just having more/separate lists.Players who want their characters to focus on being good at combat will choose skills that do that. THose that want to develop their characters to be great in certain non-combat areas can do that...and many, I presume, that will take a smattering of each to have a more 'well-rounded' (imho) character. It's totally left up to the Player's choice for their concept of their character.I do not see how separating out all combat v. non-combat skills into separate lists would improve and/or make this moreso the case.Things like upbringing and background are or can be, certainly, factors in a PCs skill choices...but that's completely dependent on the game world and each individual player's background they come up with for their character. There's no way to possibly incorporate rules for every eventuality and I think to try would do nothing but present a)more rules than are necessary and b)act as a straightjacket for player imagination. (or, from what I've read, simply be a 3/3.Xe revamp...which is not the idea here)That is kind of the goal...allowing players to come up with their concept and use the 'mechanics' presented to make that happen. Not need or even have mechanics, just to have them, so all players do is go through list after list, ticking off this and that, to build (for lack of a better term) a 'mechanical' character.This is intended as a game of character creation and development. Not character "builds" and construction. To use the somewhat loaded terms I see here often (and not wanting or intending to get into a playstyle debate or, gods forbid, edition war), but, "Role-playing" not "Roll-playing."A player who wants to pile up their Skills to be "the best there is at what they do" can certainly do that. And can do that within the structure presented...without needing separete Feats or specifying Combat v. Non-combat Skills (their application will be evident and easily understood) to do something cool or swing a sword.And for those "thinkers outside the box", there's no reason a DM can't allow a certain PC to take a skill from some other class' list if that player wants/the DM so chooses. That's something that almost certainly can and will happen once it goes (if it ever gets put to use) into each individual home/group. And the rules of the game should certainly not say that any DM or player "can't" do something.Sorry to sound like a broken record but, again, I don't see a need to generate parameters for every possible thing a player might want to do.Use your imagination. And, mostly for the DMs, use your common/what makes sense.Not saying  the game should stop for a half-hour discussion/debate/argument of physics and spatial geometry. But if that's the game the group is playing ("hyper-realism/That can't happen in the real world/That's mathematically impossible") then the DM knows this and can oblige accordingly. If a "high powered/super-heroic/action movie" game is what the group is playing, then the DM knows this as well and can/should oblige, as well.Or whatever playstyle in between.The rules can not and, I have ever believed, should not attempt to dictate what is right/good/fun for a particular group...and, I feel, laying down specifics to the degree you propose would be stepping into that realm...or further into that realm than I am interested in doing/think would be beneficial. As for Racial Skills, any non-human character will have their set (trying to keep it 4 per race) of special abilities from the get go (at least for levels 1-4)...Though the possibility to include added/more/diversify "Racial Skills" in the next/second/"expert" tier for the PCs to choose from with their accumulated Skill Points is certainly intriguing and a thought process/concept I had not before considered...I could see it as a possibility and sounds like something many players would enjoy...individualizing their elf, dwarf, what have you, from others of their race that all automatically share the same innate (small "i") abilities.But I would not want to include that as a necessarily "starting" rule for beginner play. Be an elf...once you have the hang of that and what that entails, in the next set (5th level), you can choose to make yourself a more "elfier" elf. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />To [MENTION=52734]Stormonu[/MENTION], regarding missile weapons, yeah. Slings get a bum wrap. (unless, of course, David was a high level thief, sneak attacking, with a magical sling bullet and rolling a natural 20. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> ) But given the options of starting missile weapons, it really makes sense that the pebble striking will do less damage than the arrow or crossbow bolt. Something of a "necessary inaccuracy" to comply with the neat blocks of 4 packaging/presentation.I was not planning (for the sake of the 4-blocks) on differentiating between Light and Heavy crossbows. That can be done/introduced later (heavy crossbow as an additional weapon, increased/better range and damage, etc...). And, perhaps, some "sling specific" Skill could be devised/introduced to increase sling damage...if someone really wanted to make a PC who was a "master slinger" or some such.Thanks for the comments and ideas. Keep 'em coming! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />--SD</blockquote>

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