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<blockquote data-quote="loverdrive" data-source="post: 8672332" data-attributes="member: 7027139"><p>As of trad vs. new school. First, yeah, just like [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER] said, check out <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-eastern-taxonomy.689313" target="_blank">the Eastern taxonomy</a>. What is called "mid-school" within it, encapsulates both trad and neo-trad playstyles, well, as far as I understand those two labels.</p><p></p><p>Second, yes, it is <em>possible </em>to collaboratively create an engaging story with the great deal of player input in, say, D&D 5E. The problem is, the way that system works is in direct conflict with, well, storytelling. If you want that, the players need to simultaneously try to overcome challenges the GM sets <em>and</em> strive to create a dramatic story, ramp up tensions, all that. Overcoming challenges => desire to keep things as clean as possible, creating dramatic story => desire to see characters struggle. These two are incompatible, and the game is <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uE6-vIi1rQ" target="_blank">cursed </a>(doesn't mean it sucks or anything, check out Jaffe's presentation I've linked).</p><p></p><p>Games like Fate or AW, on the other hand, don't have such conflict. I know that <em>my</em> skill at solving problems doesn't influence whether I get to stay in the game or not.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>To be honest, the reason I love PbtA games so much is that they allow to end up with a cool, engaging story without me, the player, taking on director stance. I can just play my character to the best of my abilities, and I can be 100% sure that they will struggle and change in a dramatic fashion anyway. I don't need to consciously worry about the storytelling, the only thing on my plate is "what my gal would try to do next?".</p><p></p><p>When I'm playing Vampire, on the other hand, I feel like I need to consciously drive my character towards the dramatic things, and if I'll just focus on my PC and stop treating her as a character in the story I'm <em>writing</em>, there's a decent chance the end result will be a mess.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="loverdrive, post: 8672332, member: 7027139"] As of trad vs. new school. First, yeah, just like [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER] said, check out [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-eastern-taxonomy.689313']the Eastern taxonomy[/URL]. What is called "mid-school" within it, encapsulates both trad and neo-trad playstyles, well, as far as I understand those two labels. Second, yes, it is [I]possible [/I]to collaboratively create an engaging story with the great deal of player input in, say, D&D 5E. The problem is, the way that system works is in direct conflict with, well, storytelling. If you want that, the players need to simultaneously try to overcome challenges the GM sets [I]and[/I] strive to create a dramatic story, ramp up tensions, all that. Overcoming challenges => desire to keep things as clean as possible, creating dramatic story => desire to see characters struggle. These two are incompatible, and the game is [URL='https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uE6-vIi1rQ']cursed [/URL](doesn't mean it sucks or anything, check out Jaffe's presentation I've linked). Games like Fate or AW, on the other hand, don't have such conflict. I know that [I]my[/I] skill at solving problems doesn't influence whether I get to stay in the game or not. To be honest, the reason I love PbtA games so much is that they allow to end up with a cool, engaging story without me, the player, taking on director stance. I can just play my character to the best of my abilities, and I can be 100% sure that they will struggle and change in a dramatic fashion anyway. I don't need to consciously worry about the storytelling, the only thing on my plate is "what my gal would try to do next?". When I'm playing Vampire, on the other hand, I feel like I need to consciously drive my character towards the dramatic things, and if I'll just focus on my PC and stop treating her as a character in the story I'm [I]writing[/I], there's a decent chance the end result will be a mess. [/QUOTE]
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