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<blockquote data-quote="Grendel_Khan" data-source="post: 8672526" data-attributes="member: 7028554"><p>They really aren't constraints. If that's what it sounds like to you, look at the rules for Blades in the Dark. If anything it's the lack of constraints that tends to freak people out.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Story now games are much, much more surprising, since you aren't just watching PCs move within a relatively narrow range of freedom. The entire narrative flow can change direction at any point. Maybe a success-with-consequence that a player rolls has you saying that a blizzard is rolling in, or that a cop shows up. Or a miss on a roll might mean an ally turns out to be a traitor. You could say that's all just improvisation, but it's far more improv, to a much greater degree, and with very different triggers.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, I think you're forming some pretty hard opinions--and spending a decent amount of time expressing them--without really looking at the material. Older PbtA games might have really pushed the idea of a set list of GM moves, but that's basically gone in newer games. Thirsty Sword Lesbians has a list of sample GM moves, but they're just suggestions. Brindlewood Bay and The Between suggest possible consequences, not moves. The point of most of those suggestions is to help the GM with all of the improvisation they have to do.</p><p></p><p>One of my favorite consequence suggestions in Brindlewood and The Between--and one that I think illustrates how different this approach is from a traditional game's--is to split up the PCs. That's something that, in other systems, might require a flurry of rolls and back-and-forth, and could be met with the usual panic over player agency. Perception rolls, Dex saves, Willpower checks, etc. to stop the door from locking behind you, or to resist the hallucination or spell drawing you away from the others. But in horror/investigation narratives getting split up is a pretty common trope. So if a consequence is rolled, and it works in the fiction, it can just happen. And that's not based on the GM triggering the "Split up the party move." It's just one of many possible consequences.</p><p></p><p>And in Scum and Villainy, the list of suggestions is framed like this:</p><p> </p><p>"GM ACTIONS </p><p>In the same way that player characters have actions they can use to get things done in the game, so do you have a set of GM actions. When you need to contribute to the story and you are unsure of what to do, look at this list of actions and pick one."</p><p> </p><p>Just suggestions. Ultimately, though, it's obvious that you're opposed to this approach, and you don't want to try running one of these games. That's totally your call. Just seems like you're spending a lot of time and effort pushing back on something you don't really get, and don't really want to.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Grendel_Khan, post: 8672526, member: 7028554"] They really aren't constraints. If that's what it sounds like to you, look at the rules for Blades in the Dark. If anything it's the lack of constraints that tends to freak people out. Story now games are much, much more surprising, since you aren't just watching PCs move within a relatively narrow range of freedom. The entire narrative flow can change direction at any point. Maybe a success-with-consequence that a player rolls has you saying that a blizzard is rolling in, or that a cop shows up. Or a miss on a roll might mean an ally turns out to be a traitor. You could say that's all just improvisation, but it's far more improv, to a much greater degree, and with very different triggers. Again, I think you're forming some pretty hard opinions--and spending a decent amount of time expressing them--without really looking at the material. Older PbtA games might have really pushed the idea of a set list of GM moves, but that's basically gone in newer games. Thirsty Sword Lesbians has a list of sample GM moves, but they're just suggestions. Brindlewood Bay and The Between suggest possible consequences, not moves. The point of most of those suggestions is to help the GM with all of the improvisation they have to do. One of my favorite consequence suggestions in Brindlewood and The Between--and one that I think illustrates how different this approach is from a traditional game's--is to split up the PCs. That's something that, in other systems, might require a flurry of rolls and back-and-forth, and could be met with the usual panic over player agency. Perception rolls, Dex saves, Willpower checks, etc. to stop the door from locking behind you, or to resist the hallucination or spell drawing you away from the others. But in horror/investigation narratives getting split up is a pretty common trope. So if a consequence is rolled, and it works in the fiction, it can just happen. And that's not based on the GM triggering the "Split up the party move." It's just one of many possible consequences. And in Scum and Villainy, the list of suggestions is framed like this: "GM ACTIONS In the same way that player characters have actions they can use to get things done in the game, so do you have a set of GM actions. When you need to contribute to the story and you are unsure of what to do, look at this list of actions and pick one." Just suggestions. Ultimately, though, it's obvious that you're opposed to this approach, and you don't want to try running one of these games. That's totally your call. Just seems like you're spending a lot of time and effort pushing back on something you don't really get, and don't really want to. [/QUOTE]
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