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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8673001" data-attributes="member: 82106">OK, but if you run, say, Keep on the Borderland, there's only a certain range of things that will end up being outcomes, right? I mean, a fixed and finite set of things are instantiated by the setting. We can agree that a player might say "can we go find an elvish encampment?" and the GM could certainly invent one and say "yes, you've seen an elf in the market, maybe he knows the way..." Now, imagine Dungeon World... Perhaps at the start of play a player described the place they used as a base, the Keep. Now, this 'Keep' and the environs around it are going to be much less defined, but lets suppose one of the players stated there were elves living to the north. Suppose the GM makes a move "Jorash, your sister has disappeared!" Jorash says "We search the area where she disappeared for clues!" "You find a feather." "The druid looks at it and tells us what he knows about this." "It could be elvish." (lets assume the dice say this info must be useful). "We go and find the nearest elf and interrogate him!" OK, there you go. The GM still kicked something off, but it was prompted by some opportunity for a soft move (maybe just the beginning of play). Again the GM supplied information that lead to something, but the player supplied the original impetus, there are elves to the north. The GM doesn't have to be asked if this is true, it IS true! The action is focused on something that the character is concerned with (maybe the sister was also established as being especially important in character backstory). You COULD do this in 5e, but you'd have to not build the world ahead of time, and you'd have to be very careful to insure that the players got a chance to state facts, etc.Eh... Not quite the same. There's always a GM-supplied 'framework' of story in classic D&D play, even if its a more story-focused kind of D&D play. The GM comes up with all the NPCs, how they fit together, what the driving events are, etc. Things may evolve from there in some games, and that might potentially come to resemble something like a DW game, in some degree. However, the flow and development of the SN DW game is much more fluid and centered much more on where the players indicate they are taking it. So, for example, it is utterly impossible to go 'off the rails' in DW, not even theoretically possible. No envisaged scope of action exists whatsoever, and wherever the PCs go, that's the place their story is. There's no "you're going to boringland, nothing is going to happen here." or "the dungeon is thataway!"Well, the play loop is not really different. The difference rests more in who owns the fiction and what the scope of declarations is for the players. In Dungeon World specifically the GM has to ask questions of the players, and use the answers to construct the fiction, this is part of the process. So, maybe the loop starts with a "GM: What do you think is here?" "Players: Oh this area is an X." "GM: OK, the X is infested with those Y you ran into the other day, one of them is attacking you!" ...</blockquote>

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