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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Spatzimaus" data-source="post: 2607953" data-attributes="member: 3051">Agreed, but then that should have been part of the original discussion; the only change mentioned in the original post was that divine spells could be cast spontaneously.  If the players are allowed to retain the Cleric's unlimited list of known spells (as is clearly the case in Bagpuss' campaign, from the sourcebook comment), then I still say it's horribly overpowered.  Even if your players aren't currently abusing the heck out of this, it's still broken at its core.  And when people are saying "yes, it works fine in my campaign" but that's only because of some additional limitation, then that limitation should be in the response, because without it the implication is that the original concept isn't unbalancing.If you restrict the Cleric to a small number of known spells, then you've just created a Divine offshoot of the Sorcerer with fewer spells/day but better HP, armor, and such.  This actually isn't a bad idea, and is how I think the Druid should have been in the first place (making Druid and Sorcerer the "spontaneous" versions of Cleric and Wizard, respectively).  Better yet, make a hybrid Druid/Sorcerer caster that picks spells known from either spell list, and uses both WIS and CHA for different things.  But this isn't a minor tweak to the existing system, and would need a LOT of rebalancing.  Spontaneous casting is a huge benefit to someone with limited spell slots, after all.</blockquote>

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