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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8284436" data-attributes="member: 16814">There's a host of issues here with how this is even framed -- you're guessing what I think and there's really only one such example, by [USER=7025508]@Crimson Longinus[/USER] in the thread to begin with.  But, the real issue is that you're entirely incorrect on the win condition argument.The problem with your latest go assigning Skilled Play to a win condition is that the story imperative or story curation require a win condition as well.  Both approaches are about HOW you get there, not that there is an assigned on.  You can have skilled play with a player developed goal, just as you can have story curation towards a player developed goal.  So, yes, you're halfway there in saying that a win condition is a necessary state of a moment of play -- there is a goal that play is moving towards in that moment (and which can be changed or refreshed) --  but incorrect to say that this is a fault of Skilled Play only.  Skilled Play is a process, not an end result, the same as Story Curation (or Story Imperative) is a process and not an end goal.  You seem to be willing to forgive this for curation but not for skilled play.I don't even need to know what the win condition for a session of play is to identify the moments that story curation is used over skilled play.  And that's because they are different processes, and clearly so.  When the GM changes things, or players make actions, to better serve the story, that's curation.If anything, what you're pointing to with win conditions is a consideration for play, and I agree with that.  Understanding the goal of play for everybody involved is very important.  Some goals of play will not be conducive to skilled play and some won't be conducive to story imperative.  But Win Condition isn't a problem limited to Skilled Play -- wanting to play through an exciting, memorable story with good pacing and fun twists and an exciting climax is tailor made for story curation.  Wanting to play a game where it's my actions and the mechanics alone that determine the outcome of the game, and the story is just what happens, exciting or not, is not conducive to story curation but is for skilled play.  Meanwhile, "I want to defeat the threat to the village and become a hero" is not more or less conducive to either approach.</blockquote>

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