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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8284884" data-attributes="member: 16814">The issue being that you assume that dilemma in your argument.  You've already said you cannot do skilled play and story curation at the same time, this is the foundational tenet of your position -- that it is an error if you do so.  So, when other people say that there's a tension between story curation and skilled play, you jump in and so no there isn't because you can't mix the two?  Why can't you mix the two?  Because they are in contention with each other.  I mean, you're arguing with the basic tenet of your own statements, here.  You cannot assume the two things are so antithetical that they cannot even exist at the same time and then turn around and argue that there's no conflict between them.Correct.Or rather, you can just change things so that there's no problem.  Not changing things would be a problem, hence the conflict.I mean, if you do not change things in a story curation mode, you have a failure -- you've failed to create the exciting conflict that this mode of play prizes if you do not adjust things to account for the rest. This is the conflict here.  You have a choice in the OP -- to change things or not change things due to the rest.  If you don't, you're, as you note, holding to skilled play imperatives because the idea of changing things to make for an exciting climax is not the point.  If you do, then you're curating the story, because you're discounting the play in favor of creating an exciting climax.  You have to make a choice, and you cannot choose an option that supports both because they are in conflict with each other.This is suggesting that if I have skilled play priorities (or story curation) then there isn't a choice here.  I'd argue that from a skilled play priority you're correct -- it probably wouldn't occur to change things if this priority is well internalized.  However, from the other side, there is a choice, because the proper choice isn't obvious and you'd have to lay out the various options (as you conceive them) to best select, and that includes the do nothing.  This is because story curation, but it's very nature, involves a cost/benefit evaluation -- what change effects the best outcome.  The cost here is the option not selected which may have a better benefit.  This is in the weeds, though.So, sure, in a way you are correct, but the alternative is that we don't ever consider the other.I'm not clear what you mean by gameful-narrative.  I found your explanation of gameful to be a bit odd.  "Gameful" means playing with rules, but that's space already occupied by "game" so I followed your reference.  There is no mention of "gameful" in the work you cited, "Rules of Play" by Salen and Zimmerman.  Do you have a better source?Anyway, continuing with your explanation as given, gameful narrative would then be playing with rules and narrative?  Not sure what narrative is doing here.  Your earlier post seems to indicated that gameful narrative and emergent story are the same thing, but I'm not clear that this is so, or what new work this term is doing.Well, you've been aggressively responding to my posts and liking posts by others that are actually arguing for the combination of curation and skilled play, so it was pretty easy to go there.I might suggest being clearer on your positions, then, because it was actually shocking to get to the last sets of posts and find out that all your argument predicate the position of mine you keep responding to aggressively.  Not hostilely, mind,  but aggressively.  There's a difference.</blockquote>

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