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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8286193" data-attributes="member: 71699">As I worked to articulate my questions, I felt I gained more appreciation for your emphasis on framing. In the end though, isn't it true that there is no fact of the matter for what a DM will accept? The &quot;fair trap&quot; thread is a great example, as you say.I'm also not totally satisfied that I understand what separates engaging with and skipping engagement with the fiction well enough. Take the OP concern for trivialising the fight with the BBEG, which - so far as I understand - is counted an SP move. That seems to be reducing difficulty by enhancing resources using a straight mechanical-move. I suppose one says that hitting instead of missing a creature is not SP, but then what if I hit because I optimised my character? Isn't optimising my character SP? Is optimising some game systems SP, and optimising other game systems not SP. Again, what is the filter that divides the former from the latter?EDIT the above noted, I feel that unless some concrete definition of SP is committed to, the argument must remain very hard to advance. Hence drawing your attention back to my response on that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 8286193, member: 71699"] As I worked to articulate my questions, I felt I gained more appreciation for your emphasis on framing. In the end though, isn't it true that there is no fact of the matter for what a DM will accept? The "fair trap" thread is a great example, as you say. I'm also not totally satisfied that I understand what separates engaging with and skipping engagement with the fiction well enough. Take the OP concern for trivialising the fight with the BBEG, which - so far as I understand - is counted an SP move. That seems to be reducing difficulty by enhancing resources using a straight mechanical-move. I suppose one says that hitting instead of missing a creature is not SP, but then what if I hit because I optimised my character? Isn't optimising my character SP? Is optimising some game systems SP, and optimising other game systems not SP. Again, what is the filter that divides the former from the latter? EDIT the above noted, I feel that unless some concrete definition of SP is committed to, the argument must remain very hard to advance. Hence drawing your attention back to my response on that. [/QUOTE]

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