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Almost as good as the fighter
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5889959" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>The Cleric and Rogue - an most classes - need to be competent combatants. Some classes might depend heavily on magic to be effective, but even they should be able to do /something/ worthwhile in melee or ranged combat.</p><p></p><p>The problem that keeps coming up with that, though, is that it leaves the fighter to justify his existence with a very slim superiority in combat, while being worthless out of combat. And that just doesn't work. </p><p></p><p>Clearly, WotC hasn't seen their way out of this box yet, or they wouldn't have mentioned how much trouble they're having with the fighter.</p><p></p><p>There are many possible solutions. 4e hit upon one that worked: in combat - it made ever class combat-effective, but also gave each, even the fighter, high enough peak power (in the form of dailies) that everyone could have a moment to shine in combat, and divided combat contribution up into roles that further let each class have their moments and distinctive contributions. It didn't work beyond combat, though. Skill-heavy rogues and diverse-utility and ritual- capable casters still dominated out of combat. Really, it wasn't so much that a few classes dominated out of combat, as that the fighter was distinctly left under-contributing out of combat.</p><p></p><p></p><p>With the idea of the 'Pillars' (combat, exploration, interaction) floating around, the door is open to finally solve this long-standing conundrum. Give each class competence in all three pillars. The Cleric and Rogue can be almost as good as the fighter in melee, because the fighter can be almost as good as the Cleric in a diplomatic intrigue or the rogue in a trap-filled dungeon.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 5889959, member: 996"] The Cleric and Rogue - an most classes - need to be competent combatants. Some classes might depend heavily on magic to be effective, but even they should be able to do /something/ worthwhile in melee or ranged combat. The problem that keeps coming up with that, though, is that it leaves the fighter to justify his existence with a very slim superiority in combat, while being worthless out of combat. And that just doesn't work. Clearly, WotC hasn't seen their way out of this box yet, or they wouldn't have mentioned how much trouble they're having with the fighter. There are many possible solutions. 4e hit upon one that worked: in combat - it made ever class combat-effective, but also gave each, even the fighter, high enough peak power (in the form of dailies) that everyone could have a moment to shine in combat, and divided combat contribution up into roles that further let each class have their moments and distinctive contributions. It didn't work beyond combat, though. Skill-heavy rogues and diverse-utility and ritual- capable casters still dominated out of combat. Really, it wasn't so much that a few classes dominated out of combat, as that the fighter was distinctly left under-contributing out of combat. With the idea of the 'Pillars' (combat, exploration, interaction) floating around, the door is open to finally solve this long-standing conundrum. Give each class competence in all three pillars. The Cleric and Rogue can be almost as good as the fighter in melee, because the fighter can be almost as good as the Cleric in a diplomatic intrigue or the rogue in a trap-filled dungeon. [/QUOTE]
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Almost as good as the fighter
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