Already bought, and returned, HoS

[Neverfate]

I'm lucky enough to have a premier store relatively close to me, so earlier today I had a chance to head over and purchase a copy of Heroes of Shadow. Thankfully I was hanging around the area because I had to return the book about 3 hours later (I actually had to exchange it for Munchkins: Zombies, a miniature and a few space dice, as I could get cash back).

Just to say, I'm a huge WotC supporter and I love the directions Essentials went. I never considered Essentials a new edition. I even prefer the Thief build over a standard Rogue build.

To put it lightly, Heroes of Shadow is at most half a book and at worst a total cluster-####. This could be offset if Dragon magazine ever produce something for any of these classes, but wait, one of the Dragon exclusive classes are printed IN this book.

We've know the Executioner build for the Assassin was in the book. It's nearly unchanged (it plays exactly the same; poorly/gimmicky). But it's the fact that it feels like it eats up a chunk of the very small book. It feels forced. If it were a new build for the Original Assassin or had another Guild for the executioner.... it's be something.

Many classes get limited choices. And seeing is how short the book is versus how expensive (I paid over $35) you think they could have put anything else in.


I was with WotC up until now. Now I dunno what they're doing, so I'll just play with what I have and let them keep producing these half-finished books til Hasbro re-re-restructures them.

Also, the books not a total loss. The concepts are great. The execution just left a bad taste in my mount I had to trade it back in.

 

[Aegeri]

Personally I am not happy with the book very much, especially due to reintroducing certain poor design decisions to 4E that really should have stayed dead like racial penalties. Overall though it has some real merits that I wasn't really expecting:

1) The Necromancer is actually pretty neat. Sure it's YAFW, but I think it works pretty well conceptually and adds quite a bit to the Wizard class.

2) I love the Blackguard. Sure the at-wills they get are kinda crap (especially the Fury blackguard), but the overall class is really solid and seems to be a *lot* of fun. It's also almost natively built for wintertouched/lasting frost as an added delicious bonus! I personally really like the Blackguard.

3) Even with their -2 surge value penalty, countered easily by taking the +2 surge value feat until late heroic (when -2 doesn't matter anymore), I like the Vryloka in the end. I like them enough to specifically houserule their penalty into a bonus while bloodied - which is a solution that works well in play.

4) I originally thought the vampire would be absolutely terrible, but it turns out it's just not very good - but interesting enough to justify its existence in the book (IMO). With durable you get an interesting striker with some novel mechanics. It has some pretty serious problems, but it does have enough advantages and merits to it - like decent control powers (often bursts/blasts) that I think it kind of works.

Everything else is okay to mediocre, especially the Shade, many feats and some of the EDs (which often need others to spread the terrible around to the whole party). Like you I am very disappointed it reprints the executioner and revenant from DDI - it's just paying again for something I already own. I also dislike the current direction of "Shove everything onto the wizard and cleric class if you can".

Overall the book is very disappointing, but there is so much information on it on the internet now that you can piece together just about everything in the book (roughly) and what it does. So if you don't like the sound of the information already given, then you should just not buy it! The problem with this book is in my mind, it puts a lot of pressure on Heroes of the Feywild to be really great. If Heroes of the Feywild is another silly gimmick class, filled with YAFW builds and probably some cleric powers - then I think I'll be done with buying 4E products for PCs (or allowing the use of PC books post-HoS in my games). Then again, I think I might just stop playing 4E DnD in general, because I'm honestly sick of the current design direction and hate the way it is going.

 

[IanB]

Personally I think I'm most happy to see the death cleric stuff, it fills a thematic niche that has been empty for way too long.

 

[kaomera]

I'm really looking forward to the Owlbear class in HotFW.

 

[Colmarr]

YAFW

Sigh. I only just figured out what AEDU means. What the hell is YAFW?

And what other new acronyms are you young'uns throwing about these days (specifically post-Essentials) that I need to know about?

Then again, I think I might just stop playing 4E DnD in general, because I'm honestly sick of the current design direction and hate the way it is going.

I share your dislike. Isn't it funny that we'd both be willing to throw the baby out because we don't like the bathwater?

 

[Mad Hamish]

From the context I think it's 'yet another f... wizard'

 

[Aegeri]

I'm really looking forward to the Owlbear class in HotFW.

I am very much looking forward to it as well. The terrible hooting of my approach will scare all but the most resolute of DMs.

Also the only reason I keep running 4E is because I really enjoy my current games and the people I play with. But if things keep going the way they are, I'm going to lose my interest in 4E because I really don't want to go back to a previous edition "carefully scan all books to fix issues" workload. That's something thus far in 4E I've enjoyed not bothering with.

I cannot emphasize how much I want Wizards to just leave the fighter, rogue, cleric and wizard alone.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

How short is the book? How much of that is "unseen" or new content?
Our group has not done much with essentials in terms of 4e and I was wondering if this book offered much in terms of hopping on (the other 4e DM has invested in essentials but for myself, I just have all the "old" books)? From the sounds of things maybe not but if you can convince me otherwise, go for it.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[WalterKovacs]

How short is the book?

159 pages.

How much of that is "unseen" or new content?

Assuming access to DDi:

You've already seen the Executioner build (it has a minor tweak, but mostly as is) and the Revenant (with new second stat option and updated 'when dropping below 0hp' wording) plus its feats (one feat is a general version of lots of feats ... a single feat works to get any race's racial power).

Outside of that, some was previewed/spoiled during the lead up.

Our group has not done much with essentials in terms of 4e and I was wondering if this book offered much in terms of hopping on (the other 4e DM has invested in essentials but for myself, I just have all the "old" books)? From the sounds of things maybe not but if you can convince me otherwise, go for it.

Well, the new classes (Executioner, Blackguard, Vampire, Binder) don't need the Essential books at all. The new options for old classes (Death domain, necromancer school, nethermancer school, gloom pact hexblade) requires the Essential books to use, but plenty of the powers are useable by older classes. Even stuff like STR clerics and CHA paladins gets some usable attack powers (since they don't reference any stat at all, heck a paragon multiclasses half-elf versatile master could pick up those powers since they are completely stat/weapon/implement independent).

In terms of encouraging people to play with Essentials? Not sure. The stuff in here is very flavorful. The vampire, the assassin, the blackguard ... all have different types of "cool". The necromancer and nethermancer get summons that last "forever" (until killed or replaced, not just encouter long), something very different from what's come before. The Cleric has access to old favorites like Inflict Wounds and other "auto-hit" damage attacks. So, if you didn't like Essentials because it was more "fighter, rogue, wizard, cleric" ... there are some new more niche type classes. If you didn't like Essentials because stuff was simple... I'd argue this book (the vampire's surge burning and gaining mechanics, the assassin's poison, which is like wizard spells, the blackguard's methods of dealing ther striker damage) is a bit more complex than HotFK and HotFL. They still use some of the class design, but it's executed in a more complex way.

 

[twilsemail]

Thankfully I was hanging around the area because I had to return the book about 3 hours later

You have a book store near you that will let you return a book because you don't like the content? Hunh.