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<blockquote data-quote="Vegepygmy" data-source="post: 4776895" data-attributes="member: 40109"><p>3.5 FAQ says:</p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: deepskyblue">When my human uses </span></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"><em><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">polymorph</span></span></span></span></span></em><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">* to take the form of</span></span></span></span></span></p></strong></p><p style="text-align: left"><strong><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">another creature, he loses any extraordinary special attacks</span></span></span></span></span></p></strong></p><p style="text-align: left"><strong><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">and qualities. Does this include his bonus feat and bonus</span></span></span></span></span></p></strong></p><p style="text-align: left"><strong><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">skill points? If so, how do I figure out which feat and skill</span></span></span></span></span></p></strong></p><p style="text-align: left"><strong><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">points are derived from his racial traits?</span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></strong><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: deepskyblue">A human’s bonus feat and bonus skill points—like most</span></p></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">other racial traits—are considered extraordinary qualities, and</span></p></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">thus are lost when the character would lose such abilities</span></p></span></span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">(including when </span></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"><em><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">polymorphed</span></span></span></span></span></em><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">). This is a good reason to keep</span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">track of which feat is your human bonus feat, since it might</span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">have wide-reaching effects. (For instance, if Dodge was your</span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">bonus feat, you’d lose the benefits of any other feats that have</span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">Dodge as a prerequisite, such as Mobility and Spring Attack.)</span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">Keeping track of where your bonus skill points are spent is</span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">more onerous, and likely less significant to play. If most of</span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">your skills are maxed out (that is, their rank equals your level</span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">+3, or half that for a cross-class skill), it’s probably easiest</span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">simply to designate one skill as the repository for all your</span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">bonus skill points.</span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">For ease of play, some DMs ignore this side effect, but</span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">doing so represents a clear benefit granted to humans. Be aware</span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">that players of nonhuman characters may resent this “freebie.”</span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">*The question and answer uses “</span></span></span></span></span><em><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">polymorph</span></span></span></span></span></em><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">” to refer</span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">specifically to spells that rely on the </span></span></span></span></span><em><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">polymorph </span></span></span></span></span></em><span style="color: deepskyblue"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px">or </span></span></span></span><em><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px">alter self</span></span></span></span></em></span></p><p><span style="color: deepskyblue"><em><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></em></span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: deepskyblue">spell to adjudicate their effect (including </span></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"><em><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">alter self, polymorph,</span></span></span></span></span></em></p> <p style="text-align: left"><em><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">polymorph any object</span></span></span></span></span></em><span style="color: deepskyblue"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px">, and </span></span></span></span><em><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px">shapechange</span></span></span></span></em></span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">), psionic powers based</span></span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">on the </span></span></span></span></span><em><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">metamorphosis </span></span></span></span></span></em><span style="color: deepskyblue"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px">power (including </span></span></span></span><em><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px">metamorphosis </span></span></span></span></em></span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">and</span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span><em><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: deepskyblue">greater metamorphosis</span></p><p></span></span></span></span></em><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">), and any other effect based on either of</span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: deepskyblue">these lists.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span> </p><p>For what it's worth, I agree with you that this was a lame call, though I understand how the RAW supports it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Vegepygmy, post: 4776895, member: 40109"] 3.5 FAQ says: [B][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][LEFT][COLOR=deepskyblue]When my human uses [/COLOR][/LEFT][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][COLOR=deepskyblue]polymorph[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][COLOR=deepskyblue]* to take the form of[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]another creature, he loses any extraordinary special attacks[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]and qualities. Does this include his bonus feat and bonus[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]skill points? If so, how do I figure out which feat and skill[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]points are derived from his racial traits?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] [/size][/font][/size][/font][/B][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][LEFT][COLOR=deepskyblue]A human’s bonus feat and bonus skill points—like most[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]other racial traits—are considered extraordinary qualities, and[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]thus are lost when the character would lose such abilities[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue](including when [/COLOR][/LEFT][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][COLOR=deepskyblue]polymorphed[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][COLOR=deepskyblue]). This is a good reason to keep[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]track of which feat is your human bonus feat, since it might[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]have wide-reaching effects. (For instance, if Dodge was your[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]bonus feat, you’d lose the benefits of any other feats that have[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]Dodge as a prerequisite, such as Mobility and Spring Attack.)[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]Keeping track of where your bonus skill points are spent is[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]more onerous, and likely less significant to play. If most of[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]your skills are maxed out (that is, their rank equals your level[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]+3, or half that for a cross-class skill), it’s probably easiest[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]simply to designate one skill as the repository for all your[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]bonus skill points.[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]For ease of play, some DMs ignore this side effect, but[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]doing so represents a clear benefit granted to humans. Be aware[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]that players of nonhuman characters may resent this “freebie.”[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]*The question and answer uses “[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][COLOR=deepskyblue]polymorph[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][COLOR=deepskyblue]” to refer[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] [COLOR=deepskyblue]specifically to spells that rely on the [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][COLOR=deepskyblue]polymorph [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][COLOR=deepskyblue][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]or [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]alter self [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][LEFT][COLOR=deepskyblue]spell to adjudicate their effect (including [/COLOR][/LEFT][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][COLOR=deepskyblue]alter self, polymorph,[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]polymorph any object[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][COLOR=deepskyblue][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1], and [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]shapechange[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][COLOR=deepskyblue]), psionic powers based[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]on the [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][COLOR=deepskyblue]metamorphosis [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][COLOR=deepskyblue][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]power (including [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1]metamorphosis [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][COLOR=deepskyblue]and[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][LEFT][COLOR=deepskyblue]greater metamorphosis[/COLOR][/LEFT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][COLOR=deepskyblue]), and any other effect based on either of[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=1] [COLOR=deepskyblue]these lists.[/COLOR] [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] For what it's worth, I agree with you that this was a lame call, though I understand how the RAW supports it. [/QUOTE]
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