Altering the shaman for a low magic OA game

[Graf]

My group will be starting a new game relatively soon. After some discussion we've decided to go low magic OA.
Please note I'm not against big magic games. I kind of love them, but the players are apprently of sick of it. I understand how they feel as I tend to use magic to make the game world more interesting and its become a kind of crutch.

The PCs will have almost no magical abilities, magic using classes will be extremely rare (and direct damage magic the property of imperial agents who rarely travel out into the PCs neck of the woods).
Likewise magical items will be rare and more of the "allows your ancestor spirit to advise you" and less of the "your sword is on fire, you do extra damage". (this also makes the ancestral sword of a samurai more useful/impressive/valuble).

Most of the PCs will be samurai or rogues, most everyone they encounter will be similar non-magical classes. However one of the nobles will be a member of the noble caste who has recently returned from the ancient temple in the west. He was sent there as a young boy for political reasons related to sucession. (he'll be classed as a Shaman)

There are two things I'm wondering looking for suggestions on:
would be very glad to hear about people's other experiences with similar games, of course, these are just two related nuts I need to crack relatively quickly.

Healing
I want to make healing rarer and more impressive. This will make the heal skill useful too. I also want to have a way to slow the game down naturally, by forcing people to rest for several days after tough fights.
1. I'm planning on increasing the level of all healing spells by 2. (so cure minor wounds is now a level 2 spell. Cure light is 3rd etc.)
2. Healing 'dice' will be d4 instead of d8. So cure light heals 1d4+1 per 2 levels up to +5, etc.
3. I will add a spell in at 0th level called Abance* of the Final Breath which will allow the shaman to stabilize someone and bring them to -2 hitpoints. And a first level spell (resist light wounds?) which will turn 1d4 +1/level up to +5 of 'normal' damage into subdual damage.
*I know it's not a word. I'm sure there's a word like it but I can't figure it out right now. I think the word I'm looking for means 'holding off'.

Shaman power level
How much does this 'nerf' the Shaman?
the other healer classes aren't a concern right now, as they'll be rare npcs, and probably not in conflict/competition with the PCs anyway
There will be few-to-no direct damage spells floating around so everyobdy suddenly taking 20 points of damage from a fireball in a random encounter isn't an issue. But ACs will probably be relatively low in the party, since magic items for that stuff will be rare and they're using a 27 point build.
My first instinct was to to do nothing or maybe increse the DC of their spells by 2 to make the spells they do have work better. But I'm not sure that increasing the DC really addresses the issue.

Suggestions? Comments?

 

[Graf]

weird double post

 

[haiiro]

3. I will add a spell in at 0th level called Abance* of the Final Breath which will allow the shaman to stabilize someone and bring them to -2 hitpoints.

*I know it's not a word. I'm sure there's a word like it but I can't figure it out right now. I think the word I'm looking for means 'holding off'.

I think "abeyance" fits the bill. Here's the dictionary.com definition: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=abeyance&r=2.

Cool name for a spell, BTW. Why -2 HP, and not some other amount (back to 0 if you want them to stay unconscious, up to 1 if you want a slightly more powerful spell)?

If you've got this spell written up, can you post it here?

 

[Mike Sullivan]

I would suggest that you also add a first level spell called something like, Blessing of Quick Recovery, which doubles natural healing rate for two days. That will help the Shaman remain a useful healer until he can get to the level necessary to cast second level spells.

If you also play up people's superstitious fear of magic (ie, the Shaman can maybe bluff his way out of situations, or force enemies into retreat, just by doing a fairly showy-but-useless spell), I suspect that the class will be balanced.

 

[Graf]

I think "abeyance" fits the bill. Here's the dictionary.com definition: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=abeyance&r=2.

That was it. Thanks.

Cool name for a spell, BTW. Why -2 HP, and not some other amount (back to 0 if you want them to stay unconscious, up to 1 if you want a slightly more powerful spell)?

I specifically don't want a spell that's
Ogino is gutted by the trecherous attack of your guard. Someone (the Hara clan?) has paid well for your lives.
round 1. Shaman kneels by Ogino, mutters spell. Ogino's guts slither back into hs body as his flesh knits closed.
Ogino gets up, "I'm gonna kick some ass!"

The spell is also deceptively powerful right now in the case of the gravly injured person. The D&D standard orison (that I'm giving out at 2nd level) only heals 1 hit point. This one could heal 8 or 9 if someone were in the deep negatives when the spell were cast. I should probably just say the spell stabilizes someone and turns half the damage below 0 into subdual damage.
Last night I was thinking that having someone at -9 hitpoints could really be a problem because the character can't play for days of game time. Of course the answer to that is to have more magical healing in the game...
To answer the question: Last night when I was typing it up -1 made it seem like I the spell was definitely going to be much better than resist light wounds so I just made it -2.

I'm also thinking that healing spells stack within a 12 or 18 hour period. So if you get healed for 3 points of damage and then later for 6 you only are affected by another 3 points. That would make the higher level healing spells remain useful even if they do do as much numerically.

If you've got this spell written up, can you post it here?

I haven't yet. When I have I will.

I would suggest that you also add a first level spell called something like, Blessing of Quick Recovery, which doubles natural healing rate for two days. That will help the Shaman remain a useful healer until he can get to the level necessary to cast second level spells.

That does sound like a good idea. Maybe a sweat lodge type spell where everyone who spends a whole day in a small area where the Shaman is chanting and muttering will get to double their healing.
I -do- like the idea of the heal skill becoming more useful. I had two characters (including a paladin) who had spent a lot of points on healing, really looked for herbs for medicinal purposes, etc. Basically all they got to do was apply some first aid and identify what kinds of curses I'd placed upon the party members.
One thing I'm less keen on is the Shaman feeling like he has to spend even more spells healing people to counteract the world. (i.e. Instead of tossing a CLW, to help a party member he has to Abayance[/] then RLW then Blessing of quick heal. Not very fun for him.

If you also play up people's superstitious fear of magic (ie, the Shaman can maybe bluff his way out of situations, or force enemies into retreat, just by doing a fairly showy-but-useless spell), I suspect that the class will be balanced.

Hmmm. You right, of course. The player would enjoy that and there will be some of that.
On the other hand as the heir apparent of the local lord traveling with retainers including (at least right now) two other samurai and two men-at-arms he's going to getting at lot of respect already.
These are people that, theoretically, he wants to respect and like him.; the early game dynamics will focus on nearby clans attempting to woo away retainers on his borders. Given the fact that the previous lord rebeled against the rightful rule of the empire and commited a lot of atrocities being spooking or creepy isn't going to get him much of wha he wants.

I'm inclined to say that it's balanced too. But if it weren't I don't know that a roleplaying perk is the best way to balance a mechanical perk. Or am I just beeing too by-the-book?

 

[Mike Sullivan]

Hmmm. You right, of course. The player would enjoy that and there will be some of that.
On the other hand as the heir apparent of the local lord traveling with retainers including (at least right now) two other samurai and two men-at-arms he's going to getting at lot of respect already.
These are people that, theoretically, he wants to respect and like him.; the early game dynamics will focus on nearby clans attempting to woo away retainers on his borders. Given the fact that the previous lord rebeled against the rightful rule of the empire and commited a lot of atrocities being spooking or creepy isn't going to get him much of wha he wants.

And that's fine, of course. If magic is considered a bit untrustworthy, that makes using it for impressive purposes a double-edged sword.

I'm inclined to say that it's balanced too. But if it weren't I don't know that a roleplaying perk is the best way to balance a mechanical perk. Or am I just beeing too by-the-book?

Well, look at it this way: You aren't really knocking down the character's maximum power, you're nerfing his versatility. After all, nothing says that a Shaman has to cast any healing spells in the course of his entire career.

But most Shamans have the opportunity to do so. You're lowering that opportunity, and, in return, giving him a different opportunity -- that of being an intimidating figure when he wants to. Hell, codify it, if you want! Write up some circumstance bonuses to Intimidate checks based on using spells, and make those bonuses pretty studly.

Thinking more on your proposed changes, it strikes me that you aren't going to get exactly what you want out of them -- or maybe you won't get what I wrongly think you want. It seems to me that you want magical healing to be something of a special occaision &#150 something that your Shaman might dramatically do to save his best friend, something people would react to with awe.

But you're also planning on laying the party up for days with injuries, and using the heal skill and natural healing. I suspect that the party's going to quickly start saying things like, "Hey, Dave, why don't you prepare only Orison in your 2nd level slots today? Sure, it's a terrible spell, but we're just going to be sitting here waiting to heal, so you might as well push things along as fast as you can..."

So there will be a fairly large amount of magical healing, it'll just be kind of ineffective.

If you want magical healing to be rare and dramatic, you might want to do something like keep the Cure spells as they're currently written, but put a cost into them -- monetary (for material components of some kind -- yes, I know that divine casters don't usually use material components), XP, temporary-but-long-term stat drain, something like that.

 

[Graf]

Well, look at it this way: You aren't really knocking down the character's maximum power, you're nerfing his versatility. After all, nothing says that a Shaman has to cast any healing spells in the course of his entire career.

But most Shamans have the opportunity to do so. You're lowering that opportunity, and, in return, giving him a different opportunity -- that of being an intimidating figure when he wants to. Hell, codify it, if you want! Write up some circumstance bonuses to Intimidate checks based on using spells, and make those bonuses pretty studly.

A well thought-out point. I'd missed the whole versatility thing. Thanks.

Thinking more on your proposed changes, it strikes me that you aren't going to get exactly what you want out of them -- or maybe you won't get what I wrongly think you want. It seems to me that you want magical healing to be something of a special occaision &#150 something that your Shaman might dramatically do to save his best friend, something people would react to with awe.

Though I appriciate you putting the thought into it you did I'm not actually looking for more dramatic.

I'm looking for a way to slow down the game a bit, and remove the emphasis (tactically and strategically) on healing, which I think will help me reap dividends on the story front.

speed
In the previous game people advanced at unholy rates of speed. We had one week and a half of game time (7 or 8 games) where peoples levels basically doubled. Lowering Xp rewards has been the subject of feirce debate so I've been looking for alternatives. I think that if people have to rest between battles then that might stretch things out.

resources & resource management
Healing is really powerful. The amount of access a group has to standard clerical healing has a tremendous impact on their power level. In the first part of the prior campaign (set in the Scarred Lands) the group didn't have a cleric. The groups effectiveness and power jumped tremendously once they got a clerical cohort. By comparison many of their enemies didn't have clerics (it's a Scarred Lands thing) and they suffered for it.
A groups fighting prowess isn't really dependant on the warriors so much as it is on clerics. Which is great for D&D and fits in well with the crusader midevial kind of D&D motif.
I don't see healing and healing magic as playing such a large role in OA. By making it less effective other feats (dodge even) and abilities become more useful.

I guess that doesn't make a whole lot of sense but that's the train of thought.

But you're also planning on laying the party up for days with injuries, and using the heal skill and natural healing. I suspect that the party's going to quickly start saying things like, "Hey, Dave, why don't you prepare only Orison in your 2nd level slots today? Sure, it's a terrible spell, but we're just going to be sitting here waiting to heal, so you might as well push things along as fast as you can..."

So there will be a fairly large amount of magical healing, it'll just be kind of ineffective.

Yup. Shaman's spontaniously cast so that any unused spell is going to go into healing.

I'll probably make the spontanious spells the ones that turn damage into subdual damage. Either way for the first few levels they'll basically be turning damage into subdual damage.

You are right about the cure minor wounds spell. But I think that if you can nerf healing spells as much as I am and they are still going to be used more than any other spell then that's a key indication of the power of the cure spells.

If you want magical healing to be rare and dramatic, you might want to do something like keep the Cure spells as they're currently written, but put a cost into them -- monetary (for material components of some kind -- yes, I know that divine casters don't usually use material components), XP, temporary-but-long-term stat drain, something like that.

An xp cost is a good idea. For real cure spells an xp cost of (1xcharacter level of recipient) xp per point of healing might be a good idea.

To be honest games with lots of healing tend to get weird for me on two levels.
1. They are very forgiving of, and thus encourage, bad tactics. No matter how badly a battle goes some players feel like they can just get healed at the end of the fight. Or wait until tomorrow. So they tend to play it very loose. If they're successful then the next time it encourages them to do the same sort of thing. If they're unsucessful then they're dead, often the group is woefully over extended. etcetera. The game gets de-railed as everyone tries to get raised, complains about being lower level, etc.
Basically the cleric (or whoever) can cover for anything bad that happens to you, and the expectation is that they will.

2. On a macro-social level the power over life and death isn't often worked into campaigns.
If healing is common and people aren't to worked up about being hurt. The town drunk gets involved in a fight, goes to the church of Kord or whoever likes brawlers, the next day, makes a little donation and they patch him up.
Another example:
Rich people never die, unless there's some sort of old age limit. Assassination isn't a big deal, major figures are just raised. There are people out there who run "raising loan" business. You know, a young person gets killed and they offer to raise them in exchange for a portion of their earnings over the next ten years.
I -don't- really want to deal with the repercussions of this kind of stuff. It's not a goal in this game for me.


In addition Churches/divine healers are nessessarily some of the most powerful forces in the game. I see the OA game I want to run as being not focused on organized religon, or religion so much in general. (Partially because the last game was gods, gods, gods pretty much all the time). By limiting their power to heal and harm I think they can play their role as "outsiders on the fringes of society" much more reasonably.