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<blockquote data-quote="Ranger19k" data-source="post: 5518581" data-attributes="member: 98621">If you came to me with this proposal, I'd approve it straight out: you are probably giving up more than you get (powerwise), so I'd have no problem with that.Additionally, you are going to want to add Perform and Diplomacy (at a minimum) to your class skills if the base class doesn't already have them.&nbsp; I would probably let you just add them for &quot;free&quot; with the thought that the &quot;penalty&quot; for the additional skills would be the self-imposed MAD (requiring you to invest in Charisma when you wouldn't otherwise have bothered).If you don't think that's a strong enough &quot;penalty&quot;, you could also propose one-for-one skill swaps (say, add those two but loose two that are reasonably &quot;unbardish&quot;).&nbsp; As long as you arr not trying to add UMD in exchange for Handle Animal (which you aren't) I would see it as a fair trade.I would probably not let you swap in the entire Bard class-skills, however, since they get a lot, and other classes are &quot;balanced by having fewer skills.&nbsp; If you wanted to swap something like the Rogue skills list in exchange for the Bard's I'd consider allowing it, but Cleric for Bard would be a no-go.As far as classing goes, be sure to consider the skill points as well.&nbsp; If you tried to do your Bard alternative off of a cleric base class with those huge 2+int skill points per level, you aren't going to be able to flesh out perform enough to even make it worthwhile, unless you have a high int as well as a high chr, which pretty much means a high everything in a cleric (talk about MAD).&nbsp; So I think it would work best with something like rogue, or even Ranger (I can see a woodland minstrel) who have a fair number of points to spare.Overall though, 1) I like the idea, and 2) see no reason why it would disrupt game balance and thus see no reason why it wouldn't work.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ranger19k, post: 5518581, member: 98621"] If you came to me with this proposal, I'd approve it straight out: you are probably giving up more than you get (powerwise), so I'd have no problem with that. Additionally, you are going to want to add Perform and Diplomacy (at a minimum) to your class skills if the base class doesn't already have them. I would probably let you just add them for "free" with the thought that the "penalty" for the additional skills would be the self-imposed MAD (requiring you to invest in Charisma when you wouldn't otherwise have bothered). If you don't think that's a strong enough "penalty", you could also propose one-for-one skill swaps (say, add those two but loose two that are reasonably "unbardish"). As long as you arr not trying to add UMD in exchange for Handle Animal (which you aren't) I would see it as a fair trade. I would probably not let you swap in the entire Bard class-skills, however, since they get a lot, and other classes are "balanced by having fewer skills. If you wanted to swap something like the Rogue skills list in exchange for the Bard's I'd consider allowing it, but Cleric for Bard would be a no-go. As far as classing goes, be sure to consider the skill points as well. If you tried to do your Bard alternative off of a cleric base class with those huge 2+int skill points per level, you aren't going to be able to flesh out perform enough to even make it worthwhile, unless you have a high int as well as a high chr, which pretty much means a high everything in a cleric (talk about MAD). So I think it would work best with something like rogue, or even Ranger (I can see a woodland minstrel) who have a fair number of points to spare. Overall though, 1) I like the idea, and 2) see no reason why it would disrupt game balance and thus see no reason why it wouldn't work. [/QUOTE]

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