Kesh
First Post
This is an idea I had a long time ago, when Athas.org was still working on their 3e conversion and the Dragon/Dungeon remake was nothing more than rumor.
Essentially, the ideas of how to create Defilers and Preservers in 3e/3.5e has proved to be a point of heavy contention. It's made more difficult by having two arcane classes*: the Sorcerer and the Wizard.
From what I've read, Athas.org provides Defiling as a form of metamagic through feats for the Wizard and Sorcerer. I haven't seen the Dragon #315 take on Defiling, so I'd appreciate it if someone summarized that for us.
However, for the longest time, I've been considering my own version of Dark Sun. Most likely, I'm going to end up using the Dungeon timeline/setting/monsters, the Expanded Psionics Handbook for certain races and other monsters, and Athas.org for many of the rules updates.
Still, I'm considering my own version of Defilers and Preservers. I've decided the how... the original DS boxed set essentially outlines the difference in a rather simple way. Preservers used the standard Wizard XP chart, while Defilers used a shorter one (ie. taking less XP to advance in level, meaning they get their magic faster). With 3e, and the unified XP chart, there has to be a new incentive to make someone choose one over the other.
I've come up with two methods for creating Defilers & Preservers for my own needs. I'm throwing them out here for feedback, and as an alternative for your own DS campaigns or as house rules for your other campaigns.
Defiler/Preserver Only
One of my options was this: Out of the two arcane classes, Sorcerer & Wizard, one is always the Defiler class, while the other is always the Preserver class. This provides a simple distinction between the two classes. However, it does introduce a few problems, and I'd like to get some opinions.
First, I have to choose which class fits which type of spellcasting. I'm torn, because each could fit both profiles. Here are my takes:
Wizards as Defilers
In this scenario, Wizards fill their traditional role on Athas as Defilers. Wizards take the persona of the miserly arcanist, caring more for the gathering of knowledge & magical power than the harm they cause the planet. This is echoed by their larger selection of known spells than Sorcerers, and the ease in which they can add any spell to their repertoire. Further, Wizards gain bonus feats as they progress, adding to their power.
Sorcerers under this model take a path of discipline and personal sacrifice. They can cast more spells per day, but completely lose when it comes to variety of spells known. They do not gain bonus feats, gain new spell levels later than Wizards and lack the Knowledge skills a Wizard can take advantage of in his rise to power.
Sorcerers as Defilers
This way, Sorcerers are brash, power hungry beings. Rather than spending the time to learn ways of magic that don't harm the world, they draw directly from its lifeforce to cast spells. For this, they gain flexibility in their magic through spontaneous spellcasting, neither needing to prepare their spells ahead of time nor worry about having the proper metamagic ready beforehand. In addition, since they lack spellbooks, they are less readily identified as arcanists, making them more suited to hiding out among psions and the mundane population.
On the other hand, Wizards spend years learning their craft. They must study endlessly to gain access to their magic, and in return must prepare their spells ahead of time, with the metamagic they want. They get fewer spells to cast per day, and their selection is rather fixed for that time. While they gain the extra feats for creating magic items or metamagics, they trade for flexibility in their spell's use, and for being obvious magic users. Though they are Preservers, the association between magic and spellbooks is rooted in the population, and they must suffer under this stereotype. One which is likely encouraged by the Dragon-Kings, to prevent future rivals from growing in power.
My Choice
Personally, I'm leaning towards using Sorcerers as Defilers, since it fits the 'quick and dirty path' of magic better. It does make it difficult to play a good Sorcerer, though, which can be a problem. It also twists the traditional setup of Defilers as wizards on Athas, but on the flipside fits the name "Sorcerer-King" perfectly.
The main problem with this would be characters who start as Defilers and later reform to Preservers, and those who start as Preservers but give in to the dark temptations of becoming a Defiler.
In this scenario, I'm leaning towards two options: one, a set of feats similar to those on Athas.org which allow a Perserver to sometimes defile, and a Defiler to sometimes preserve. That would let one dabble in both magics, at a cost.
The other is that, one can literally switch classes. A Preserver Wizard who begins defiling would eventually become a Sorcerer. I'm still working on the process for this, but I believe I would simply swap classes, while retaining two features: the new Defiler would retain all his known spells and bonus feats, while swapping his spells-per-day routine for the Sorcerer one. Further spells would come as per a Sorcerer, and he could no longer add to his repertoire through scrolls or spellbooks (but no longer needs his own spellbook). I think that would be a strong temptation to Defile.
On the flipside, a Defiler Sorcerer who redeems himself would swap his class directly to that of a Wizard. He would not suddenly gain any retroactive bonus feat choices... they're missed opportunities. Nor does he get any new spells (besides his two new spells for gaining a Wizard level). From then on, he would progress normally as a Wizard, while having to prepare and cast spells as a Wizard. It's certainly not attractive, and any Defiler would have to be seriously repentant to go this path.
An alternative would be a pair of Prestige Classes: Redeemed and Corrupted. I think that would be a bit more difficult, as far as paper-trails go. They would probably be a set of 3 or 5 level PrCs which help smooth through the changes from one class to another (so that a character would end up looking like Wiz 8/Cor 3/Sor 2, and casting spells as a 13th level Sorcerer). That would quantify the changeover for those who prefer a mechanics-based switch, rather than an arbitrary swap from one to the other, while still retaining all the benefits of the arbitrary swap.
The other flaw is simply that it makes Sorcerers always defile. Anyone casting a non-cantrip spell will be noticed in a heartbeat, and likely not long for this world. I'd likely add a feat or class ability to choose not to defile as a no-level slot metamagic (like Eschew Materials), thus slowing down their spells a little (full-round action for Sorcerers to spontaneously metamagic). If you want that standard-action spell, you defile... and thus, the speed & convenience of defiling comes into play.
For Wizard Defilers, it becomes a bit more problematic... likely, it would have to be at least a +1 level slot metamagic, but that's still doable for all except your highest-level spells. This way, your most powerful magic defiles, while you learn how to disguise most of your lower level spells through Preserving magic.
Fin
So, for anyone who actually read through this whole thing, what do you think? I may write up the Redeemed and Corrupted PrCs, if I get the bug to do so. But does anyone think it would be worth it? Or is the whole concept too burdened to work?
Essentially, the ideas of how to create Defilers and Preservers in 3e/3.5e has proved to be a point of heavy contention. It's made more difficult by having two arcane classes*: the Sorcerer and the Wizard.
From what I've read, Athas.org provides Defiling as a form of metamagic through feats for the Wizard and Sorcerer. I haven't seen the Dragon #315 take on Defiling, so I'd appreciate it if someone summarized that for us.
However, for the longest time, I've been considering my own version of Dark Sun. Most likely, I'm going to end up using the Dungeon timeline/setting/monsters, the Expanded Psionics Handbook for certain races and other monsters, and Athas.org for many of the rules updates.
Still, I'm considering my own version of Defilers and Preservers. I've decided the how... the original DS boxed set essentially outlines the difference in a rather simple way. Preservers used the standard Wizard XP chart, while Defilers used a shorter one (ie. taking less XP to advance in level, meaning they get their magic faster). With 3e, and the unified XP chart, there has to be a new incentive to make someone choose one over the other.
I've come up with two methods for creating Defilers & Preservers for my own needs. I'm throwing them out here for feedback, and as an alternative for your own DS campaigns or as house rules for your other campaigns.
Defiler/Preserver Only
One of my options was this: Out of the two arcane classes, Sorcerer & Wizard, one is always the Defiler class, while the other is always the Preserver class. This provides a simple distinction between the two classes. However, it does introduce a few problems, and I'd like to get some opinions.
First, I have to choose which class fits which type of spellcasting. I'm torn, because each could fit both profiles. Here are my takes:
Wizards as Defilers
In this scenario, Wizards fill their traditional role on Athas as Defilers. Wizards take the persona of the miserly arcanist, caring more for the gathering of knowledge & magical power than the harm they cause the planet. This is echoed by their larger selection of known spells than Sorcerers, and the ease in which they can add any spell to their repertoire. Further, Wizards gain bonus feats as they progress, adding to their power.
Sorcerers under this model take a path of discipline and personal sacrifice. They can cast more spells per day, but completely lose when it comes to variety of spells known. They do not gain bonus feats, gain new spell levels later than Wizards and lack the Knowledge skills a Wizard can take advantage of in his rise to power.
Sorcerers as Defilers
This way, Sorcerers are brash, power hungry beings. Rather than spending the time to learn ways of magic that don't harm the world, they draw directly from its lifeforce to cast spells. For this, they gain flexibility in their magic through spontaneous spellcasting, neither needing to prepare their spells ahead of time nor worry about having the proper metamagic ready beforehand. In addition, since they lack spellbooks, they are less readily identified as arcanists, making them more suited to hiding out among psions and the mundane population.
On the other hand, Wizards spend years learning their craft. They must study endlessly to gain access to their magic, and in return must prepare their spells ahead of time, with the metamagic they want. They get fewer spells to cast per day, and their selection is rather fixed for that time. While they gain the extra feats for creating magic items or metamagics, they trade for flexibility in their spell's use, and for being obvious magic users. Though they are Preservers, the association between magic and spellbooks is rooted in the population, and they must suffer under this stereotype. One which is likely encouraged by the Dragon-Kings, to prevent future rivals from growing in power.
My Choice
Personally, I'm leaning towards using Sorcerers as Defilers, since it fits the 'quick and dirty path' of magic better. It does make it difficult to play a good Sorcerer, though, which can be a problem. It also twists the traditional setup of Defilers as wizards on Athas, but on the flipside fits the name "Sorcerer-King" perfectly.
The main problem with this would be characters who start as Defilers and later reform to Preservers, and those who start as Preservers but give in to the dark temptations of becoming a Defiler.
In this scenario, I'm leaning towards two options: one, a set of feats similar to those on Athas.org which allow a Perserver to sometimes defile, and a Defiler to sometimes preserve. That would let one dabble in both magics, at a cost.
The other is that, one can literally switch classes. A Preserver Wizard who begins defiling would eventually become a Sorcerer. I'm still working on the process for this, but I believe I would simply swap classes, while retaining two features: the new Defiler would retain all his known spells and bonus feats, while swapping his spells-per-day routine for the Sorcerer one. Further spells would come as per a Sorcerer, and he could no longer add to his repertoire through scrolls or spellbooks (but no longer needs his own spellbook). I think that would be a strong temptation to Defile.
On the flipside, a Defiler Sorcerer who redeems himself would swap his class directly to that of a Wizard. He would not suddenly gain any retroactive bonus feat choices... they're missed opportunities. Nor does he get any new spells (besides his two new spells for gaining a Wizard level). From then on, he would progress normally as a Wizard, while having to prepare and cast spells as a Wizard. It's certainly not attractive, and any Defiler would have to be seriously repentant to go this path.
An alternative would be a pair of Prestige Classes: Redeemed and Corrupted. I think that would be a bit more difficult, as far as paper-trails go. They would probably be a set of 3 or 5 level PrCs which help smooth through the changes from one class to another (so that a character would end up looking like Wiz 8/Cor 3/Sor 2, and casting spells as a 13th level Sorcerer). That would quantify the changeover for those who prefer a mechanics-based switch, rather than an arbitrary swap from one to the other, while still retaining all the benefits of the arbitrary swap.
The other flaw is simply that it makes Sorcerers always defile. Anyone casting a non-cantrip spell will be noticed in a heartbeat, and likely not long for this world. I'd likely add a feat or class ability to choose not to defile as a no-level slot metamagic (like Eschew Materials), thus slowing down their spells a little (full-round action for Sorcerers to spontaneously metamagic). If you want that standard-action spell, you defile... and thus, the speed & convenience of defiling comes into play.
For Wizard Defilers, it becomes a bit more problematic... likely, it would have to be at least a +1 level slot metamagic, but that's still doable for all except your highest-level spells. This way, your most powerful magic defiles, while you learn how to disguise most of your lower level spells through Preserving magic.
Fin
So, for anyone who actually read through this whole thing, what do you think? I may write up the Redeemed and Corrupted PrCs, if I get the bug to do so. But does anyone think it would be worth it? Or is the whole concept too burdened to work?
