Alternate DR rules- no Golf bags!

[Cheiromancer]

I'm sure I read a variant of this rule somewhere on these boards- or maybe it was a link to someone like Monte? But I can't find it on his site either. It had to do with eliminating the golf-bag of weapons approach that the various special DRs involved. And made it so that the rapidly escalating cost of bonuses for magic weapons was reflected by their increased utility.

Anyways. This is my take on letting weapons with a higher plus substitute for special materials.

Equivalency:

+2 = silver, cold iron
+3 = magic and silver, magic and cold iron, adamantine
+4 = aligned, magic and adamantine
+5 = magic and aligned.

In other words, subtract 2 from the plus to see if a weapon counts as silver or cold iron, subtract 3 for it to count as adamantine, and subtract 4 to make it count as an aligned weapon (good, evil, lawful, chaotic). If there is a remainder, it means the weapon still counts as magic. You can't subtract more than the plus, though.

If a weapon would bypass the DR both by virtue of its material (and/or alignment) and its plus, add +2 to the damage done.

For example, a +3 weapon counts as silver and magic (since subtracting 2 from the plus doesn't make it non-magical). It could harm a vampire. If it was a +3 silver weapon, it would do an additional 2 damage to that vampire.

An adamantine weapon or a +3 weapon could harm stone or iron golems. A +3 adamantine weapon would do an additional +2 damage.

A balor (DR 15/cold iron and good) could be hit by a +4 cold iron weapon, or a +2 good weapon. Or by a +6 weapon. If it was hit by a +6 cold iron and good weapon, it would take an additional 2 points of damage.

The sure-striking enhancement allows you to bypass alignment-based restrictions for a cost of +1. The metalline enhancement allows you to change the metal type at will, and has a cost of +2. (IIRC- IDHTBIFOM) In this system metalline is not cost effective, since you can just get a +3 weapon for the same cost. If the caster is less than 9th level, he might not have that option of enhancing that high.

Does anyone know who suggested this type of rule, and where? Any comments?

 

[Frozenface]

I do believe that something like this was posted at montecook.com recently.

 

[rkanodia]

Another way you could do it would be to say that DR stacks, but divide a monster's DR up into parts (round up the DR that is tougher to beat) based on its vulnerabilities. This would eliminate the problem (well, at least I perceive it as a problem) where a high enough enhancement bonus beats everything, while still reducing the golf-bag factor of generic 3.5E.

So, a monster with DR 15/silver and lawful in the Monster Manual would have DR 7/silver and DR 8/lawful. A PC with a non-silver, nonmagic weapon loses 15 points of damage per attack, just like standard 3.5. A PC with a silver weapon would lose 8 points of damage per attack. A PC with a lawful weapon would lose 7 points of damage per attack. A PC with a silver lawful weapon would bypass the DR entirely and deal full damage, just like standard 3.5.

This method still gives a given monster a sense of vulnerability to specific types of weapons, while granting a fair amount of benefit to PCs who have weapons that would be 'close, but no cigar' under the standard rules. So if you don't mind PCs carrying, say, 1-3 'DR breaker' weapons, this method might be worth trying out.

 

[Zoatebix]

I've been playing around with something almost exactly like the system rkanodia proposes.

 

[Aaron2]

If a weapon would bypass the DR both by virtue of its material (and/or alignment) and its plus, add +2 to the damage done.

I don't like this +2 bonus because it turns DR into a weakness, esp. Silver. Past a certain level, every weapon will be at least +2. Now creatures with DR/Silver will take full damage anyway and extra damage from silver magic weapons. DR shouldn't result in the monster taking bonus damage.


Aaron

 

[rkanodia]

I've been playing around with something almost exactly like the system rkanodia proposes.

I actually thought about it a bit and came up with a method that requires no new rules, only minor changes in the monster entries. Basically, any time you see

DR X/Y and Z,

replace it with the entries
DR (X/2)/Y and Z
DR X/Y or Z

so
DR 10/silver and magic
becomes
DR 5/silver and magic
DR 10/silver or magic

This has the same effect as my earlier idea, without introducing glitches where using stoneskin could give you uber DR.

edited because I am an idiot

 

[mirivor]

http://www.montecook.com/dmonly.html

There is the link to Monte Cook's article concerning DR. Very well thought out, as I have come to expect from him. Later!

 

[babomb]

I like the added emphasis on materials in 3.5 DR, but I've been thinking about adding magic pluses back in. The real problem I had with 3.0 DR (apart from the materials not being worthwhile) was that if a creature had DR 15/+3, a +3 weapon would do full damage, while a +2 weapon would do little, if any. I've been toying around with making it more like:

DR 15/+1
DR 10/+2
DR 5/+3

This way, magic DR wouldn't be all or nothing, and it'd make a difference whether you had a +2 weapon or a +3.

Of course, combining with the above system would be a little rediculous in some cases. Let's take a DR 15/magic(+3) and silver. That becomes

DR 15/magic(+1) or silver
DR 10/magic(+2) or silver
DR 8/magic(+1) and silver
DR 5/magic(+2) and silver
DR 5/magic(+3) or silver (redundant)
DR 2/magic(+3) and silver

or maybe:

DR 15/magic(+1) or silver
DR 12/magic(+2) or silver
DR 10/magic(+3) or silver
DR 8/magic(+1) and silver
DR 5/magic(+2) and silver
DR 2/magic(+3) and silver

Either way, that's a lot of DR listings.

 

[HellHound]

Cheiromancer, doesn't this just make it so that all DR can be defeated by the application of Greater Magic Weapon?

Honestly, with the serious reduction in the potency of DR in 3.5 (most creatures had their DR halved), I find that the special DRs are far more satisfying than the old system of just walking in with a +5 Weapon of DR-Breaking.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Hi Hellhound,

Maybe the golf-bag problem is not as serious as one might think. Although theoretically there are 36 combos (3 materials times 4 alignments times 3 damage types), practically speaking a few items will get through most DRs: say a magic silver morningstar, a cold iron longsword and an adamantine mace for the golems. There are not many monsters with DR 15/magic and lawful and evil and piercing and cold iron.

But beside the golf-bag problem (which maybe isn't as serious as one might think), I'd like to see a reason why someone would add a plus to a weapon rather than a flaming/frost/whatever enhancement. The energy enhancements add +1d6 damage to everyone (everyone not already resistant), while a plus just adds a +1 to hit and damage. A lot of folks think one would be stupid to add the plus rather than some other enhancement.

Maybe if a weapon of high plus further reduced the DR yet again, but didn't necessarily eliminate it? To address the GMW problem, this additional reduction would apply only to a permanent bonus of the weapon. It might work like this:

+2 weapons reduce /silver and /iron DRs by 5. +3 weapons do the same for /adamantite, while +4 weapons do the same for aligned weapons, and +5 weapons reduce the DR by 5 for /bludgeoning, /piercing or /slashing weapons. If the DR is of the /A or B variety, the DR can be reduced twice.

So having the right weapon would definitely be smart against the 10/ or 15/ DR guys. But it would make sense why someone might commission a +4 longsword instead of +1 longsword with 3 plusses worth of special abilities; such a weapon would be very versatile.