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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tormyr" data-source="post: 9825549" data-attributes="member: 6776887">I have been working on updating Pathfinder 1e guns into 5e in support of my Zeitgeist campaign. Back when I was considering whether or not to include the concept of the ranged attack vs Touch AC, I thought about using Dex saving throws. So if eliminating the effect of physical AC is what you are going for, the Dex saving throw is the simplest way to do it.Potential downsides of using Dex saving throws:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You automatically hit and do damage to objects, even if they are made of exotic materials like adamantine, moving, or very small.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Any creature with Evasion is automatically better against firearms, on top of a probable high Dex saving throw. This could create a wide gap between those weak against firearms and those strong against firearms.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">No penalty for firing when an Enemy is within 5 feet of you.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">With firearms not being an attack or a spell, you have to write rules for everything rather than leverage 5e's rules.</li> </ul>Each of these potential issues can be mitigated with adding more rules. Keep in mind though that usually 5e resolves attempts to deal damage to a single target with an attack roll unless dealing with a cloud or some other mitigating circumstance (see poison spray or sacred flame). Also, those cantrips that target a single thing with a saving throw generally only let you target creatures.(I settled on something closer to the mechanics for firearms in the 5e PHB and DMG. I then added more of the equipment options from PF (extra firearm types, alchemical cartridges, etc.). Misfire, ranged vs Touch AC, extra damage on critical hits, and other things that would require extra rules because they were not already supported in 5e went out the window.)Most balance issues will go away if you make it behave like a cantrip and don't worry too much about realism. 5e is more about telling stories and less about verisimilitude.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">1dX damage die with cantrip scaling. No ability modifier damage without feats.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Uses an action.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Dex save for no damage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Can fire on a target up to the long range of the firearm. Targets that are outside of normal range have advantage on the saving throw.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">One weapon mastery that takes effect if the target fails its saving throw. (Although I prefer "if the target takes" damage for the trigger.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Firearms are martial weapons.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If the creature can make ranged weapon attack rolls with Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma (such as a Hexblade), use that ability modifier for the saving throw DC.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Use PHB for examples of firearm damage dice, ranges, and weapon masteries.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Magic firearms add +X to DC and damage.</li> </ul>Potential feats:GunsmithOrigin featExtra Damage. Once on your turn when you shoot a firearm, you can add your ability modifier to the damage if you aren't already adding it to the damage. (each of the feats adds ability modifier damage; a PC only needs to choose one)Proficiency. You have proficiency with firearms and Tinker's Tools. (gets around firearms being martial weapons)Tinker's Tools. You gain a set of Tinker's Tools. (gives the tools to craft firearms)[HR][/HR]GunslingerGeneral Feat (Prerequisite: Level 4+)You gain the following benefits.Ability Score Increase. Increase your Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20. (any ability a PC might need to make a ranged weapon attack)Dual Wielding. When you are holding two one-handed firearms, you can use your action to shoot both firearms instead of just one. You can add your ability modifier to the damage of each firearm if you aren’t already adding it to the damage. You only roll the normal damage dice (no scaling) when you shoot the second firearm.Quick Draw. You can draw or stow two one-handed firearms as part of shooting them when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one.[HR][/HR]SniperGeneral Feat (Prerequisite: Level 4+)You gain the following benefits.Ability Score Increase. Increase your Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20.Bypass Cover. When you shoot at a creature with your firearm, a creature does not gain a bonus to its Dexterity saving throw from Half Cover and Three-Quarters Cover.Extra Damage. Once on your turn when you shoot a firearm, you can add your ability modifier to the damage if you aren't already adding it to the damage.Long Shots. When you shoot at a creature with your firearm, being at long range does not grant a creature Advantage.</blockquote>

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