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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 7880068" data-attributes="member: 93670">Speed factor systems indeed put too much work on the gm &amp; get even worse if the gm needs to preplan what every npc will be doing... but d20+dex has some problems despite being functional.<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Dex is already punching pretty high above everything but charisma.&nbsp; Switching it to a different stat helps elevate that stat somewhat.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">In the past it was harder for rogues to get backstab/sneak attack if the weren't high on the initiative order, now they pretty much just need to work with anyone &amp; are actually going to have a more difficult time if they are going before everyone else.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Yes&nbsp; a d20 rather than a d12 or unspent hit die will have a lower chance of people getting the same initiative count, but there are plenty of ways to trivially handle those &amp; it's hardly a hiccup when it happens.&nbsp; </li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Using a hit die+int will favor martial classes by hit die size &amp; reward those who don't dump int like EK/AT/artificer types.&nbsp; Wizard/artificer with smaller hit dies than barbarian/pally/fighter will find their large int bonus more relevant for purposes of immediate battlefield changing stuff but the hit die size will make sure that they are not always miles ahead of the party.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">If the hit die+int is the largest unspent hit die, you add some extra risk to falling off a cliff, resting an hour, &amp; being back to 100% as if nothing happened because then your going to be on the naughty word end of what might as well be surprise rounds &amp; it adds up when none of the baddies can be taken out or hamstrung before they take their first turn (especially if those are difficult baddies)even if it's not crippling.</li>
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[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 7880068, member: 93670"] Speed factor systems indeed put too much work on the gm & get even worse if the gm needs to preplan what every npc will be doing... but d20+dex has some problems despite being functional. [LIST] [*]Dex is already punching pretty high above everything but charisma. Switching it to a different stat helps elevate that stat somewhat. [*]In the past it was harder for rogues to get backstab/sneak attack if the weren't high on the initiative order, now they pretty much just need to work with anyone & are actually going to have a more difficult time if they are going before everyone else. [*]Yes a d20 rather than a d12 or unspent hit die will have a lower chance of people getting the same initiative count, but there are plenty of ways to trivially handle those & it's hardly a hiccup when it happens. [*]Using a hit die+int will favor martial classes by hit die size & reward those who don't dump int like EK/AT/artificer types. Wizard/artificer with smaller hit dies than barbarian/pally/fighter will find their large int bonus more relevant for purposes of immediate battlefield changing stuff but the hit die size will make sure that they are not always miles ahead of the party. [*]If the hit die+int is the largest unspent hit die, you add some extra risk to falling off a cliff, resting an hour, & being back to 100% as if nothing happened because then your going to be on the naughty word end of what might as well be surprise rounds & it adds up when none of the baddies can be taken out or hamstrung before they take their first turn (especially if those are [I]difficult[/I] baddies)even if it's not crippling. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]

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