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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9397221" data-attributes="member: 42582">Well, in classic D&amp;D terms &quot;Friendly&quot; is either a result on an encounter table, or the result of a Charm spell. I don't think either outcome is consistent with betrayal. Gygax, in his DMG, also has a rather intricate loyalty system which builds on the reaction system, and likewise means that a NPC who is loyal will not betray the PC to whom they are loyal.In 3E D&amp;D, &quot;Friendly&quot; means &quot;Wishes you well&quot; and thus willing to &quot;Chat, advise, offer limited help, advocate&quot;. That is not consistent with betrayal.I don't know exactly how the 5e DMG defines the various sorts of NPC reaction, but I assume it also draws a contrast between someone being friendly or well-disposed, and someone being willing to secretly betray a PC.The idea that the players can have their PCs succeed in an attempt to befriend a NPC - whatever exactly that looks like in the system - and yet the GM be at liberty to have that NPC secretly betray them, is an example of the GM's vision of the fiction being determinate.Whatever check (or other resolved action) was used to befriend the NPC. In B/X or AD&amp;D this is a reaction/encounter check, or else the successful casting of a Charm spell. In 3E D&amp;D, it would be a Diplomacy check as best I understand that game. In 4e D&amp;D it would be a Diplomacy check. I believe in 5e D&amp;D an attempt to befriend a NPC would normally be resolved (if uncertain) by a CHA (Persuasion) check.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9397221, member: 42582"] Well, in classic D&D terms "Friendly" is either a result on an encounter table, or the result of a Charm spell. I don't think either outcome is consistent with betrayal. Gygax, in his DMG, also has a rather intricate loyalty system which builds on the reaction system, and likewise means that a NPC who is [I]loyal[/I] will not betray the PC to whom they are loyal. In 3E D&D, "Friendly" means "Wishes you well" and thus willing to "Chat, advise, offer limited help, advocate". That is not consistent with betrayal. I don't know exactly how the 5e DMG defines the various sorts of NPC reaction, but I assume it also draws a contrast between someone being friendly or well-disposed, and someone being willing to secretly betray a PC. The idea that the players can have their PCs succeed in an attempt to befriend a NPC - whatever exactly that looks like in the system - and yet the GM be at liberty to have that NPC secretly betray them, is an example of [I]the GM's vision of the fiction being determinate[/I]. Whatever check (or other resolved action) was used to befriend the NPC. In B/X or AD&D this is a reaction/encounter check, or else the successful casting of a Charm spell. In 3E D&D, it would be a Diplomacy check as best I understand that game. In 4e D&D it would be a Diplomacy check. I believe in 5e D&D an attempt to befriend a NPC would normally be resolved (if uncertain) by a CHA (Persuasion) check. [/QUOTE]

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