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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5068527" data-attributes="member: 4937">The problem with this as I see it is that you are making your argument for the change in the rules from the basis of realism without it in any way being clear that you are actually becoming more realistic.In reality we find that there are some sorts of injury that you recover from in minutes and other sorts of injury that you recover from in days (or longer, if at all).  You're arguing essentially that not merely all environmental damage is the sort you recover from only after days, but that all damage is the sort you recover from only after days and that just doesn't jive with experience.We've all been cold.  We've all shivered and shook with chill.  We've all been outside at times when we were underdressed and hense strongly motivated to not stay outside very long.  I doubt that most of us considered that at the time we were probably mere hours or even minutes from death, because a succor - a source of life saving warmth - was generally near at hand.  However, if you are out in the cold for very long without proper protection that's exactly what you are risking.  Yet, take that person risking death and restore them to a place of warmth and within minutes they are perfectly fine and restored to full vigor and capacity for action.Now, we know that if we stayed out longer we'd begin to risk injuries that we'd not so easily recover from - frostbite destroys tissue, chilbins errupt on the skin surface, major organs begin to shut down, etc.  All these things take a long period of rest in a warm environment and sometimes medical treatment to recover from.  But the point is that while this may be true, it doesn't elimenate the existance of the dangerous and debilitating before the lethal symptoms begin to set in.I think it is very clear that cold (and all sorts of other hazards to the body) have this same sort of separation.  Even injuries are like that.  Most of us have played contact sports and most of us have probably experienced taking a hard, painful hit that left us debilitated for some minutes, but which, after that period was over left very little significant and lasting effect.  We soon forget about the bruise or the abrasion, and sometimes discover we've taken no lasting harm at all.  We 'walk it off', and then we are 'good to go'.   I'm not arguing that realistically all injuries are superficial (as they are in 4e, for example) but I am arguing that reaching for Wound of CON damage too early is over doing it.   Wound or CON damage is something that should be left for the extreme case - stage 3 hypothermia, to go for the particular example at hand.   I think you should only go that far when the person has already been fully debilitated by the cold, thirst, hunger, or whatever.</blockquote>

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