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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Alternative feats for cross-class skills
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<blockquote data-quote="Spatzimaus" data-source="post: 2671134" data-attributes="member: 3051"><p>I'll agree that "any 2" is just too strong. Not having Complete Adventurer, the only three ways I know of to add Class skills are:</p><p>1> Cleric choosing certain domains</p><p>2> Paragon Human racial class ability (Any one skill)</p><p>3> Cosmopolitan Feat from FRCS. (Any one skill, and get a bonus to it)</p><p>None of these are unbalanced IMO.</p><p></p><p>Part of the reason I think the "any 2" would be unbalanced are because you could get both Hide and Move Silently as class skills. Either of these skills are decent, but when combined with the other, they become extremely strong. Similar logic applies for Spot and Listen or Spot and Search. So, while I like the concept of limiting it to certain combinations, the fact that you're allowing many of the same combinations doesn't help.</p><p></p><p>If you shifted it a bit, I think that might help. For instance, try Hide+Spot (the visual ones) in one skill, and Listen+Move Silently (the audio ones) in the other. I know that conceptually it'd be a bit awkward, but balancewise I think it'd be much more tolerable.</p><p>You could move Concentration to the animal trainer one; that one's already not very thematic, and it'd bring it up to balance. Or, just remove it from the Feats altogether, like you did Use Magic Device. After all, the only people who need Concentration skill are those who have it on their class lists already.</p><p></p><p>One small nitpick: </p><p>In most cases, the skills that benefit from these Feats are useful for everyone, making them a nice alternative to multiclassing. The sole exception is Adept, which gives Alchemy, Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft. Who, outside of a caster, ever would spend skill ranks on these? I mean, I don't see Barbarians spending a Feat AND many of their skill points raising a skill solely for the purpose of identifying incoming spells.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, not a bad concept, but I'd definitely want to see it in practice before deciding on balance. As someone who's played mostly high-skilled characters (Rogues, Rangers, Shaper Psions), I know I'd have loved to have these available.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Spatzimaus, post: 2671134, member: 3051"] I'll agree that "any 2" is just too strong. Not having Complete Adventurer, the only three ways I know of to add Class skills are: 1> Cleric choosing certain domains 2> Paragon Human racial class ability (Any one skill) 3> Cosmopolitan Feat from FRCS. (Any one skill, and get a bonus to it) None of these are unbalanced IMO. Part of the reason I think the "any 2" would be unbalanced are because you could get both Hide and Move Silently as class skills. Either of these skills are decent, but when combined with the other, they become extremely strong. Similar logic applies for Spot and Listen or Spot and Search. So, while I like the concept of limiting it to certain combinations, the fact that you're allowing many of the same combinations doesn't help. If you shifted it a bit, I think that might help. For instance, try Hide+Spot (the visual ones) in one skill, and Listen+Move Silently (the audio ones) in the other. I know that conceptually it'd be a bit awkward, but balancewise I think it'd be much more tolerable. You could move Concentration to the animal trainer one; that one's already not very thematic, and it'd bring it up to balance. Or, just remove it from the Feats altogether, like you did Use Magic Device. After all, the only people who need Concentration skill are those who have it on their class lists already. One small nitpick: In most cases, the skills that benefit from these Feats are useful for everyone, making them a nice alternative to multiclassing. The sole exception is Adept, which gives Alchemy, Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft. Who, outside of a caster, ever would spend skill ranks on these? I mean, I don't see Barbarians spending a Feat AND many of their skill points raising a skill solely for the purpose of identifying incoming spells. Anyway, not a bad concept, but I'd definitely want to see it in practice before deciding on balance. As someone who's played mostly high-skilled characters (Rogues, Rangers, Shaper Psions), I know I'd have loved to have these available. [/QUOTE]
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Alternative feats for cross-class skills
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