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Alternative HP systems and other altered d20 mechanics
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<blockquote data-quote="Isawa Sideshow" data-source="post: 241111" data-attributes="member: 1107"><p>But it's the exception, rather than the rule. 99 times out of 100, it won't come up. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Doesn't necessarily have to be magic. What's leather's DR against fire? Fire's not magical. Burning oil, alchemist's fire (napalm), a flamethrower - these are all real effects, not magical ones. So, what's the mechanic for resisting fire damage? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, now I have to constantly monitor what condition my armor is in (based on what it's made of), as well as my own condition? Yes, I know Palladium/RIFTS does that, but then you're just adding <em>more</em> hit points, which is what I thought you wanted to get away from.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You have yet to prove it. Let's see if I've got this right:</p><p></p><p>Figure out character's weight, divide by 10, dropping remainders. That's your hit points. Add strength (not constitution) bonus to hit points... only they're not really hit points, since damage isn't subtracted from them; they're just a measure of health, separate from your constitution/health stat. Now, for damage resolution, roll damage, subtract DR based on attack and damage type (consult chart if needed), then compare that damage to how many multiples of the character's hit points (which aren't really hit points), and determine the severity of the wound.</p><p></p><p>Ah, yes. <em>MUCH</em> less complicated.</sarcasm></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So this is just an excercise in theoretical thumb-twiddling, and not an actual attempt to fix any perceived problems. You claim that your system will be much more logical and less complex, but there's no real system, is there? </p><p></p><p>Frankly, if you're not offering an actual improvement to the current system, or working on a new system that you actually plan on publishing/using, you're really just wasting time.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Big Eyes Small Mouth; it's Guardians of Order's anime roleplaying game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's not a self-diminishing pattern. All attacks do damage in increasing 15-point increments, depending on how many levels (including free levels and penalties from advantages/disadvantages) of Special Attack were purchased. As long as you have points to spend and level modifiers to apply, you can keep raising the damage your attack will do by 15 points of damage per level. The cost never goes up.</p><p></p><p>And keep in mind, this is all done during character creation. The attack will never do variable damage, unless a critical hit is scored, in which case you just apply a multiplier to this fixed damage. Armor reduces damage, but again by a fixed amount against all types of damage, and also in 15-point increments.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It was another kid, who was practicing his baseball swing. I just blundered into the path of the bat.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>By your system, yes. If we were actually using those hit points as hit points (i.e., subtracting damage from them), I'd be dead at 19 points of damage.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I was knocked down, but I got right back up. I wasn't knocked out.</p><p></p><p>And it's not what I would consider a major wound. I would consider major wounds as being, well, major. Broken bones that are not life-threatining, for example, or a gunshot to the arm or foot. Something that would impact performance significantly, but was unlikely to be a mortal wound in any way. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But your system failed to model the situation "realistically", based on what actually happend. That would be the opposite of acquitting itself.</p><p></p><p>And if you're not actually making a game with this system, what is there to "tinker" with?</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>You're right, I'm assuming the antagonist (I was the clumsy one) had no strength bonus - he was no stronger than I was. Had someone swinging really hard hit me, I think it would have done more than just a minor cut to my eyebrow. I probably would have been knocked out, given a concussion, or possibly really seriously injured. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I didn't say "Cure Light Wounds"; I said "Cure Minor Wounds". I'd say a half-dozen stitches couild heal 1 hit point nicely. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>I'd also like to point out that, in the real world, there are no such things as faceless mooks with only a handful of hit points who can do no real serious damage to a person - yet these people abound in movies and roleplaying games. While your system attempts to be more realistic (and I still fail to see proof that it's either simple _or_ realistic), we're not necessarily attempting to model "realism". If that's your goal, bully to you - that's why I've been working on a VP/WP system for my Rokugan game, so that it's a little more realistic, yet still heroic - but I wouldn't say that many games are trying to be realistic in their handling of combat or damage.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Isawa Sideshow, post: 241111, member: 1107"] But it's the exception, rather than the rule. 99 times out of 100, it won't come up. Doesn't necessarily have to be magic. What's leather's DR against fire? Fire's not magical. Burning oil, alchemist's fire (napalm), a flamethrower - these are all real effects, not magical ones. So, what's the mechanic for resisting fire damage? So, now I have to constantly monitor what condition my armor is in (based on what it's made of), as well as my own condition? Yes, I know Palladium/RIFTS does that, but then you're just adding [i]more[/i] hit points, which is what I thought you wanted to get away from. You have yet to prove it. Let's see if I've got this right: Figure out character's weight, divide by 10, dropping remainders. That's your hit points. Add strength (not constitution) bonus to hit points... only they're not really hit points, since damage isn't subtracted from them; they're just a measure of health, separate from your constitution/health stat. Now, for damage resolution, roll damage, subtract DR based on attack and damage type (consult chart if needed), then compare that damage to how many multiples of the character's hit points (which aren't really hit points), and determine the severity of the wound. Ah, yes. [i]MUCH[/i] less complicated.</sarcasm> So this is just an excercise in theoretical thumb-twiddling, and not an actual attempt to fix any perceived problems. You claim that your system will be much more logical and less complex, but there's no real system, is there? Frankly, if you're not offering an actual improvement to the current system, or working on a new system that you actually plan on publishing/using, you're really just wasting time. Big Eyes Small Mouth; it's Guardians of Order's anime roleplaying game. It's not a self-diminishing pattern. All attacks do damage in increasing 15-point increments, depending on how many levels (including free levels and penalties from advantages/disadvantages) of Special Attack were purchased. As long as you have points to spend and level modifiers to apply, you can keep raising the damage your attack will do by 15 points of damage per level. The cost never goes up. And keep in mind, this is all done during character creation. The attack will never do variable damage, unless a critical hit is scored, in which case you just apply a multiplier to this fixed damage. Armor reduces damage, but again by a fixed amount against all types of damage, and also in 15-point increments. It was another kid, who was practicing his baseball swing. I just blundered into the path of the bat. By your system, yes. If we were actually using those hit points as hit points (i.e., subtracting damage from them), I'd be dead at 19 points of damage. I was knocked down, but I got right back up. I wasn't knocked out. And it's not what I would consider a major wound. I would consider major wounds as being, well, major. Broken bones that are not life-threatining, for example, or a gunshot to the arm or foot. Something that would impact performance significantly, but was unlikely to be a mortal wound in any way. But your system failed to model the situation "realistically", based on what actually happend. That would be the opposite of acquitting itself. And if you're not actually making a game with this system, what is there to "tinker" with? You're right, I'm assuming the antagonist (I was the clumsy one) had no strength bonus - he was no stronger than I was. Had someone swinging really hard hit me, I think it would have done more than just a minor cut to my eyebrow. I probably would have been knocked out, given a concussion, or possibly really seriously injured. I didn't say "Cure Light Wounds"; I said "Cure Minor Wounds". I'd say a half-dozen stitches couild heal 1 hit point nicely. :) I'd also like to point out that, in the real world, there are no such things as faceless mooks with only a handful of hit points who can do no real serious damage to a person - yet these people abound in movies and roleplaying games. While your system attempts to be more realistic (and I still fail to see proof that it's either simple _or_ realistic), we're not necessarily attempting to model "realism". If that's your goal, bully to you - that's why I've been working on a VP/WP system for my Rokugan game, so that it's a little more realistic, yet still heroic - but I wouldn't say that many games are trying to be realistic in their handling of combat or damage. [/QUOTE]
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