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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lonely Tylenol" data-source="post: 2811481" data-attributes="member: 18549">double increase?  It went from d8 to d10.An alignment restriction wouldn't make a very good generic class, would it?This is pretty big, and deserves to be broken up into more than one "minus".  It breaks up into<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+2 to save vs. enchantments</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">slow fall</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">immunity to disease</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">ability to heal self</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">immunity to poison</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">dimension door 1/day</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">spell resistance</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A save-or-die attack</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">no aging</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">permanent Tongues effect</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">turn into an outsider and gain damage reduction</li> </ul>edit: oh, also, the bruiser doesn't get greater flurryThis is a pretty beefy list of goods, especially the spell resistance, healing, and dimension door abilities.  I cut these advantages in favour of making the class more of a generic front-line fighter.Does it?  In my experience monks often skimp on Dexterity in favour of Wisdom because Wisdom fuels their AC exactly as much as Dex does, but it also fuels abilities like Stunning Fist.  Also, if you put your points into Wis instead of Dex, you don't lose your AC when you're flat-footed, which means that monks effectively have Uncanny Dodge anyway.  Besides, being flat footed is not something that I notice makes a huge difference for monks.  Not only do they often have combat reflexes, but nobody ever aims for the monk first when they could zap the barbarian with a Will save spell before he rages or smash the wizard before he can cast a spell.  It's an advantage, but it's not a huge advantage.The standard monk quickly gains the ability to penetrate DR/magic, which covers most of everything including dragons, and eventually DR/adamantine which covers the other major DR creeps, golems.  The only things that have any major resistance against monk DR-beating abilities are outsiders (except slaads).  Still, when a monk gains the ability to pierce DR, he can pierce DR/5 or DR/50, so long as he can beat that type of DR.  Shattering blow/lesser shattering strike are clearly inferior on that count.  They beat all sorts of DR, but they either confine the bruiser to a standard action (i.e. no flurry of blows) or at higher levels only beat a quantity equal to half the bruiser's level.  By the time you get the ability to simply ignore most (but not all) DR, you're at a level that DR really isn't a big issue anyway.Yeah, that's the idea.  Take away a lot of the extra stuff so that you have less walking through walls and caster-killing in favour of just hitting people with their fists.  Viability without uber rolls is exactly one of the problems with the monk.  You just can't make a good one using 25 point buy because you have to cover the physical stats plus at least one mental stat.  The bruiser will be focused on the physical stats in the same way that the barbarian and fighter are, and will have fewer mystical tricks up his sleeve and fewer immunities.</blockquote>

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