Alternative Skill Point Allowances

[Korak]

I generally play with powergamers. That is not such a bad thing, as I enjoy that sort of playstyle for the most part. However, one thing I have seen in most of the games that I play is that most skills never see the light of day. Cross class tumble or UMD is just so much more useful than profession: bartender or even decipher script in most campaigns. In order to address this I have been thinking about ways to encourage a more diverse spread in skill point allocation. More flat skill points isn't the answer as that just encourages a player to max one more already powerful skill. This is what I've come up with. I'd appreciate any constructive criticism, or potentially unforseen consequences.

First. I have grouped all the skills into categories. The names are not final.

Social skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Intimidate, Sense Motive
Athletic skills: Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Jump, Ride, Swim, Tumble
Stealth/Manipulation skills: Disable Device, Forgery, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Sleight of Hand, Use Rope
Perception/Nature skills: Concentration, Handle Animal, Heal, Listen, Search, Spot, Survival
Studied skills: Appraise, Craft (x), Decipher Script, Knowledge (x), Perform (x), Profession (x), Speak Language, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device

All characters gain bonus skill points each level based on their starting stats including bonus points from every 4 levels and inherent bonuses (but not retroactively), but excluding all other bonuses. These skill points are not multiplied by 4 at first level. They are allocated as described below.

Social Skills: Charisma modifier /2
Athletic Skills: Strength modifier /2
Stealth/Manipulation Skills: Dexterity modifier /2
Perception/Nature Skills: Wisdom modifier /2
Studies Skills: Intelligence modifier (straight up... since there are so many more skills in this category)

That may seem like a lot of points, but in a 28pt buy world, no one except wizards (and I have no problem with wizards having extensive book knowledge) should expect to get more than 3 or 4 points extra per level... and those are automatically spread across 3 or 4 skill types (and this don't auto max another skill)

Some reworking of the class skill lists might be in order. Off the cuff, all I would do is add profession, craft, and knowledge (local) to all class skill lists.

In addition to the bonus skill points described above, each class would gain skill points each level in the following way, except at level 1, when the numbers would be multiplied by 4. Generic skill points may be spent on any skill. Max rank and cross class limitations still apply as normal.

Barbarian: 2 athletic + 2 perception + 2 generic
Bard: 2 social + 1 stealth + 1 perception + 1 study +3 generic
Cleric: 1 social + 1 perception + 1 study + 2 generic
Druid: 1 stealth + 2 perception + 1 study + 2 generic
Fighter: 3 athletic + 1 study + 1 generic
Monk: 2 athletic + 1 stealth + 1 perception + 1 study + 2 generic
Paladin: 1 social + 2 athletic + 2 generic
Ranger: 2 athletic + 2 stealth + 2 perception + 2 generic
Rogue: 1 social + 2 athletic + 2 stealth + 2 perception + 1 study + 3 generic
Sorceror: 1 social + 1 study + 2 generic
Wizard: 1 perception + 2 generic (lower that other classes because of the high bonus from int to study skills)

All characters would clearly be getting more skill points. However, to my mind this system has several benefits:

1. greater variety in selected skills (a fighter or cleric can pick up a profession or craft without feeling like he has gimped his character)
2. reduces the ability to do a one level dip in a class like rogue and suddenly max a skill that the character hasn't be working on over multiple levels
3. more characters will have enough knowledge (local) to actually justify knowledge of their own home town
4. reduces the crazy skill point shuffles that allow some of the more bizarre prestige class hopping abomination characters (this may be news to you if you don't read CO boards or play with powergamers)

There it is... first draft anyway.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

One thing I have done in my homebrew is give each class a numberof skill points at each level equal to half the number of skills they have as class skills.

 

[ValhallaGH]

I still think Sadrik's Skills as Saves system is the best non-skill group d20 skill system I've seen. You can find it in my sig, under the "Pimping" spoiler.

That said, what you've got is an interesting, if complicated, solution to your problem. The other half, however, of never seeing skills is that the only skills with real combat uses are Bluff, Tumble and Use Magic Device.

Everything else has no use in a fight, and thus has almost no use in the game (I have lost track of the number of games I've seen where no one has ever had to roll a social skill, they simply "roleplay it out", which is good for their success because no one in the party has a Charisma greater than 8). Change this half, make all skills a powerful tool in the player arsenal, and I guarantee you'll see a lot more 'flavor' skills with max or near-max ranks.

 

[GreatLemur]

I generally play with powergamers. That is not such a bad thing, as I enjoy that sort of playstyle for the most part. However, one thing I have seen in most of the games that I play is that most skills never see the light of day. Cross class tumble or UMD is just so much more useful than profession: bartender or even decipher script in most campaigns.

I think the simplest and most logical solution to this problem would be to just eliminate all the skills that seem truly useless for your campaign. If a character's background and concept suggest that they'd be able to do something covered by an eliminated skill, just let them succeed automatically in the unlikely event that it ever comes up. A non-Bard character who wants to know how to play the trumpet doesn't really have any need for a Perform (trumpet) skill. When situations come up where he actually gets a chance to play for someone, where's the fun in making a him roll to see how he does? Some things don't need representation in the game mechanics.

Alternatively, how about this system: At character creation, the player gets eight free skill points to distribute among "background" skills that fit the character's history . . . and are limited to "useless" skills, however you want to define them. I'd go with Profession, Craft (anything but weapons, armor, and alchemy), and Perform (with the stipulation that this can't be used for Bard abilities), but you could certainly broaden it to include other rarely-used skills that might still have some adventuring application.

In addition to that, I'd throw in a "hobby" mechanic, letting players choose a theoretically-useless skill that their character will actually continue to purpsue, just for kicks, throughout his career. It'd have an automatic rank equal to character level. (Optionally, the player might be able to pick two hobby skills at half character level.) Naturally, this would have the same restrictions as background skills.

 

[Korak]

First, I was not clear on this, but I am not currently DM'ing a campaign. Except for DM'ing at RPGA events, I am primarily a player in home campaigns, although we all toss about different ideas and hypotheticals in rules discussions all the time. So, I don't require a practical solution to a pre-existing problem. I am just mulling over possibilities.

I think the simplest and most logical solution to this problem would be to just eliminate all the skills that seem truly useless for your campaign... Some things don't need representation in the game mechanics.

Perhaps I didn't portray my concerns clearly. It is most certainly not the case that we view certain skills as useless. It would be far more accurate to say that we see them as very fun, moderately useful, and with neat mechanics for resolution, BUT greatly suboptimal because of the scarcity of skill points. I like the mechanics for knowledge skills, language acquisition, and such. I just don't think the typical D&D character can display an appropriate variety of skills under the system as devised.

Alternatively, how about this system: At character creation, the player gets eight free skill points to distribute among "background" skills that fit the character's history . . . and are limited to "useless" skills, ...

Well, like I said, it's not just about "background" type stuff (although that is part of it). It's more like the fighter getting to take a few ranks in Knowledge(Dungeoneering), Balance, and Spot, instead of just max'ing ride and jump and having nothing else.

In addition to that, I'd throw in a "hobby" mechanic...

That's not a bad idea at all. It's definitely in line with the spirit of what I am trying to accomplish (part of what I'm trying to accomplish, anyway). However, I was trying to come up with a method that gave as much freedom to the player to spread the points around without allowing him to just have more max'd class skills that an ordinary D&D character of comparable class(es) and intelligence.

 

[GreatLemur]

Perhaps I didn't portray my concerns clearly. It is most certainly not the case that we view certain skills as useless. It would be far more accurate to say that we see them as very fun, moderately useful, and with neat mechanics for resolution, BUT greatly suboptimal because of the scarcity of skill points. I like the mechanics for knowledge skills, language acquisition, and such. I just don't think the typical D&D character can display an appropriate variety of skills under the system as devised.

Ah, okay. Yeah, that is a different concern from what I was assuming. In that case, it sounds like the solution is either to make the neglected skills better, or cheaper. There are a few skill stunt systems out there that add some utility to a wide variety of skills, and houserules about things like temporary bonuses against appropriate creature types for successful Knowledge checks. I doubt anything like that applies to Speak Language, though, so you might want to just give out languages at two for one point, maybe? Not sure.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Speak Language is pretty useless if everyone speaks common. Remove the universal language and you'll quickly have characters that speak eight or more languages all over the place.