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<blockquote data-quote="Aust Diamondew" data-source="post: 5182288" data-attributes="member: 5156">The gamers in my group and myself love the Shadowrun setting.&nbsp; We've only ever played SR3 and SR4 but unfortunately both are too rules heavy for our taste. More to the point perhaps, combat is too slow and kind of clunky (we don't mind complex character generation and complex rules are fine to learn as we can easily use them).A dice pool is already slower than one dice+modifiers versus a target number (which is fine).&nbsp; But in both SR3 and SR4 it takes multiple dice pool rolls to resolve a single gunshot or spell.In SR4 for instance the attacker rolls a dice pool, the defender makes a roll, then if the attack hits then a damage resistance roll is made by the defender.&nbsp; This is further complicated by modifications to dice pools (armor, armor piercing weaponry, lighting, wound modifier, # of defense rolls made this round etc.)&nbsp; A typical street samurai making two such attacks on each of their turns doesn't help either.I imagine some groups can handle this many dice rolls quickly and efficiently, but typically we haven't in the past.Does anyone have any suggestions on rules changes to reduce complexity and speed up combat in SR4?Alternatively, I'm interested in gritty rules lighter games that could handle the great variety of aspects (firearms, magic, cyberware, matrix, astral etc) in the Shadowrun setting?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Aust Diamondew, post: 5182288, member: 5156"] The gamers in my group and myself love the Shadowrun setting. We've only ever played SR3 and SR4 but unfortunately both are too rules heavy for our taste. More to the point perhaps, combat is too slow and kind of clunky (we don't mind complex character generation and complex rules are fine to learn as we can easily use them). A dice pool is already slower than one dice+modifiers versus a target number (which is fine). But in both SR3 and SR4 it takes multiple dice pool rolls to resolve a single gunshot or spell. In SR4 for instance the attacker rolls a dice pool, the defender makes a roll, then if the attack hits then a damage resistance roll is made by the defender. This is further complicated by modifications to dice pools (armor, armor piercing weaponry, lighting, wound modifier, # of defense rolls made this round etc.) A typical street samurai making two such attacks on each of their turns doesn't help either. I imagine some groups can handle this many dice rolls quickly and efficiently, but typically we haven't in the past. Does anyone have any suggestions on rules changes to reduce complexity and speed up combat in SR4? Alternatively, I'm interested in gritty rules lighter games that could handle the great variety of aspects (firearms, magic, cyberware, matrix, astral etc) in the Shadowrun setting? [/QUOTE]

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