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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 4160528" data-attributes="member: 48965">First let me preface this by saying...I am pretty much on the fence about 4e...it hasn't wow'd me in anyway (though this may be WotC lack of good marketing) so I'm more just meh about it.  I will probably buy the 3 corebooks (on their second printing)but I can't say I will be switching over.  I have alot of the concerns the OP is professing and replied to TMiTFH' comments about those concerns belowAnd the same could be said for 4e...Do you really think it will be the penultimate in game design?  Do you think it won't have any flaws?  Actually depending on what someone deems important for their roleplaying experience either D&D 3.x or D&D 4.0 could be the "perfect" gaming system for them.  So how can you tell someone, for them, 4.0 is an improvement over 3.x (especially since, unless your a playtester, you haven't even seen the rules)Uhm...isn't this thread about why his group won't be switching to 4e, and where did he talk about a guarantee?  How is this not valid as a reason for his group.  4e involves a financial investment, if his group has made a previous financial investment and doesn't want to dish out more money for a new edition, it sounds perfectly valid as a reason.Sooo..it was a bad move that cam early and unexpectedly from WotC...yet somehow he is wrong for being cautious it may happen again.  Yeah, because you should never look to a company's past history in dealing with them as a consumer.So 4e isn't going to produce splats and supplements?  Otherwise the same issue will arise with 4e.  The difference is 3.x rules are already known to both him and his group, they have had time to fix or work around what they don't like.  With 4e it's starting from square one, spending more money, and (one could argue) you will have to deal with problems that haven't even been discovered yet.  Well 2e offerd me Dark Sun, Planescape, Skills and Powers build system, etc.As far as the defining attribute of the game for you...this thread isn't about what defines the game for you.Let's see...The dynamics of encounters have changed, magic has changed, skill tests have(supposedly) changed, how characters are created has changed, available classes and races have changed, etc., etc.I would argue it's kind of trolling to come into a thread where the OP states upfront why he doesn't want to switch to 4e and asks for suggestions of OGL games...and the reply is to tell him why his feelings and oppinions on the game are badwrong.In all honesty most OGL games or alternatives don't cost the $100+ that the three corebooks do for another version of D&D.And you seem overly eager to justify 4e as the "right" choice for someone who has stated they don't want to move to this edition (especially seeing as how you don't have the rules yourself). To the OP: Besides Pathfinder, let me also suggest the Iron Kingdoms setting for D&D if you can get your hands on it for a decent price.  Another suggestion, if you're into high fantasy(Dawnforge) or grim low fantasy(Midnight) both by Fantasy Flight Games.</blockquote>

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