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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arkhandus" data-source="post: 4161022" data-attributes="member: 13966">To the OP: I would suggest trying Mutants & Masterminds (and if the power design confuses your group, pick up the Ultimate Power supplement, which goes into better detail on how it works and provides a bunch more sample powers).  Or Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved.  Or Spycraft. That should cover a good variety of stuff.  I'd also suggest picking up Horizons: Mechamorphosis if you happen to like Transformers (it's a d20 TF-mimicking book).  I heard that Sidewinder: Recoiled is good for wild west-style games, sort of, but I can't remember exactly what it's like since I don't have it myself.And you're building a straw man.  He never said it was perfect, but said that no game system is perfect.  And that his group is comfortable enough with 3.5, so it suffices for D&D among them.No, but obviously they spent all they feel they really need to spend in order to play D&D.  They apparently don't feel the need for another, different way to play D&D by purchasing another set of rulebooks for it.  That doesn't invalidate the desire to try out other games besides D&D.  Buying two or three different versions of D&D doesn't serve much purpose if they already like the way they're playing with one of those versions.And a new edition doesn't always mean it's universally better; many new editions change so many things to where some people consider it as much a worsening as an improvement.  Not everyone who likes GURPS likes its 4th Edition, and not everyone who likes Shadowrun likes its 4th Edition, because they changed some things that many people considered just right they way they were.  So too do some people not consider 4e D&D a net improvement.Except that 3e has much less of a different-subsystem-for-everything approach, so it's easier to deal with the supplemental material.  Also, nothing says 4e isn't going to have various issues that have to be worked around as well.  Even moreso because it won't support the same breadth of concepts and stuff as 3e supports, until several years down the line.Though it is much easier to make the character you want in 3e, with its vast library of WotC and third-party supplements, because you can find what you need for most concepts without having to cobble it together yourself.  Also, 3e's been around long enough for people to get a decent grasp of the rules, balance, and quirks.Looks much more like you're just trying to cr*p on somebody just for expressing why their group is considering other d20 materials rather than switching to 4e.  They're expressing their opinion and reasons, and they're not cr*pping on 4e, so why are you insulting them?Again, wanting to try out other d20 System games does not invalidate their D&D purchases.  Most RPGers play more than one game.  And they already said that it's not a money problem, just that they feel they're spent enough on D&D for now.  Variety is cool too, y'know, and buying another version of D&D doesn't add so much variety as trying out something like Shadowrun or Iron Heroes or Mutants & Masterminds.Stop being so insulting to someone who wasn't even bashing your beloved 4e.  Nothing says somebody has to buy something before they can decide if they'll like it or not.  That's what reviews and previews are for, y'know, so people can form a reasonably well-informed opinion about a product BEFORE they decide whether or not to spend money on it.And I doubt that what they're looking for is Pathfinder.  They seem to have what they want for D&D as-is; they're looking for other games to try out whenever they're not in the mood for D&D.</blockquote>

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