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<blockquote data-quote="Kerrick" data-source="post: 1192223" data-attributes="member: 4722">Yeah, I'd like an update too, since there are so many ideas getting tossed around. I ran the numbers last night, and I discovered that a cleric with average Cha (15) has a 50/50 chance of turning an undead of his HD only if the undead has a +0 Wis mod, all things being equal (IOW, if the undead has no modifiers to its Will save, and neither it nor the cleric have items, spells, etc. increasing their ability to turn or resist being turned). Problem is, only unintelligent undead have +o Wis mods. I forgot about the 10+Will save being nonstandard; you could use 1d20+Will instead. I think Cha should factor in there somewhere, though...I thought about adding +1 TR/4 HD (except for templates, since they automatically gain +4 TR), but this put the undead's Will saves way too high, so I ditched it. Another problem I found with my system, after running some numbers last night, is that a cleric with 15 Cha needs a 14+, most times, to turn an undead of equal HD. Not good. 1d20+level+Cha mod vs. 1d20+Will might be the best way to go here, and then apply a cap to HD turnable - that way, the sides would be a bit more equal (the cleric might actually end up on the better end). Beats me.. they didn't do it in the first MM either, which probably means it's an erratum no one caught.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kerrick, post: 1192223, member: 4722"] Yeah, I'd like an update too, since there are so many ideas getting tossed around. I ran the numbers last night, and I discovered that a cleric with average Cha (15) has a 50/50 chance of turning an undead of his HD only if the undead has a +0 Wis mod, all things being equal (IOW, if the undead has no modifiers to its Will save, and neither it nor the cleric have items, spells, etc. increasing their ability to turn or resist being turned). Problem is, only unintelligent undead have +o Wis mods. I forgot about the 10+Will save being nonstandard; you could use 1d20+Will instead. I think Cha should factor in there somewhere, though... I thought about adding +1 TR/4 HD (except for templates, since they automatically gain +4 TR), but this put the undead's Will saves way too high, so I ditched it. Another problem I found with my system, after running some numbers last night, is that a cleric with 15 Cha needs a 14+, most times, to turn an undead of equal HD. Not good. 1d20+level+Cha mod vs. 1d20+Will might be the best way to go here, and then apply a cap to HD turnable - that way, the sides would be a bit more equal (the cleric might actually end up on the better end). Beats me.. they didn't do it in the first MM either, which probably means it's an erratum no one caught. [/QUOTE]

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