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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrankTrollman" data-source="post: 1207635" data-attributes="member: 14225">I just don't see the Charisma Mod as being unimportant - it determines how often you can do it in a day. Now, currently the rules are that you get 3 + Cha modifier per day - which means people never run out. In fact, the only reason people take Extra Turning is to get 4 extra greater turnings or to qualify for feats and prestige classes.But if you could only do it once or even never without a Charisma mod - you'd see people caring about their Charisma modifier a lot more. he current problem is that since all Clerics have more turning attempts than they need - the bonus turning attempts aren't worth anything. If the default was less turning attempts than you need - it would suddenly matter a lot more.I don't think we should encourage or require massive stat inflation. Jozan has a Charisma of what, 19 at level 20?People wouldn't even bother to use Turn Undead under those circumstances. Undead don't have that many hit points, and every time a 3rd level Cleric is Turning he could be casting Knife Spray.However, I would like to see more graduation in effect. Perhaps DC 15 + Level and:Fail save: ShakenFail by more than 5: Shaken, Turned.Fail by more than 10: Shaken, Turned, Staggered.Fail by more than 15: Destroyed.And Evil Clerics could have something similar:Fail save: ShakenFail by more than 5: Shaken, Rebuked.Fail by more than 10: Charmed.Fail by more than 15: Commanded.Or something along those lines. Make turning a bit more exciting. It does has the problem of being more like Blasphemy and Holy Word, however.-Frank</blockquote>

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