Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Alternative Wildshape Rules
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 7308912" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>I am sorry to be blunt, but I think you're a little bit wasting your time. Unless of course you're doing this mostly for fun, in which case it's never wasted <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>The reasons why I say this, is that most of your premises are not that strong:</p><p></p><p>1) True that in general CR is variable, but beasts are almost always void of special abilities, all their "specials" are really just damage boosts or minor defensive abilities. This makes CR a lot less variable for beasts than any other creature. In addition, the problem only applies to Moon Druids because others are not supposed to use wildshape in combat efficiently, but Moon Druids can just pick a beast with as high CR as allowed. Differences between beasts of same CR are very slim and typically boil down to choosing a minor tactic (check for example Tiger vs Dire Wolf vs Brown Bear). There is no power creep.</p><p></p><p>2) The changes are indeed dramatic <strong>but</strong> it's not true that it requires record keeping, exactly because the changes are almost complete. You don't recalculate anything, you just pick up the animal stats and use all of them, except the mental stats (reality check: you are <strong>rarely</strong> going to need to worry about your mental stats while in wildshape, the only fairly common occurrence is Wisdom saves vs spells). You do need to keep an eye on PC skills/save proficiencies since they apply in wildshape.</p><p></p><p>3) Depends what you mean "potential", because if you start calculating what is your "optimal" choice of beast, you'll definitely spend a lot of time, because they are all very close. But that actually means this optimization is irrelevant to all but the most picky of players. This is not a problem of the game, it's a problem with the player.</p><p></p><p>4) If you always use the highest CR possible, you have 6-7 land beasts to choose from until you hit level 9, after which point you only have 1-2 land beasts to choose from of max CR. Underwater beasts are always 1-2 to choose from (rarely needed anyway). Flying beasts are always max CR1 and only 2 of them. The main burden is at levels 6-8, but again if you just pick one of them you are hardly ever making a "bad choice" because they are quite close to each other with few exceptions.</p><p></p><p>I think the main problem in your house rules is that they go against purposes 1-2-4, because they actually force me to do calculations which I <em>never</em> do with the core rules, with which I just switch the whole stat block and just keep an eye on mental score and proficiencies. Really, in our home game my <strong>8-year-older</strong> is playing a Moon Druid and has no problems handling it!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 7308912, member: 1465"] I am sorry to be blunt, but I think you're a little bit wasting your time. Unless of course you're doing this mostly for fun, in which case it's never wasted :) The reasons why I say this, is that most of your premises are not that strong: 1) True that in general CR is variable, but beasts are almost always void of special abilities, all their "specials" are really just damage boosts or minor defensive abilities. This makes CR a lot less variable for beasts than any other creature. In addition, the problem only applies to Moon Druids because others are not supposed to use wildshape in combat efficiently, but Moon Druids can just pick a beast with as high CR as allowed. Differences between beasts of same CR are very slim and typically boil down to choosing a minor tactic (check for example Tiger vs Dire Wolf vs Brown Bear). There is no power creep. 2) The changes are indeed dramatic [B]but[/B] it's not true that it requires record keeping, exactly because the changes are almost complete. You don't recalculate anything, you just pick up the animal stats and use all of them, except the mental stats (reality check: you are [B]rarely[/B] going to need to worry about your mental stats while in wildshape, the only fairly common occurrence is Wisdom saves vs spells). You do need to keep an eye on PC skills/save proficiencies since they apply in wildshape. 3) Depends what you mean "potential", because if you start calculating what is your "optimal" choice of beast, you'll definitely spend a lot of time, because they are all very close. But that actually means this optimization is irrelevant to all but the most picky of players. This is not a problem of the game, it's a problem with the player. 4) If you always use the highest CR possible, you have 6-7 land beasts to choose from until you hit level 9, after which point you only have 1-2 land beasts to choose from of max CR. Underwater beasts are always 1-2 to choose from (rarely needed anyway). Flying beasts are always max CR1 and only 2 of them. The main burden is at levels 6-8, but again if you just pick one of them you are hardly ever making a "bad choice" because they are quite close to each other with few exceptions. I think the main problem in your house rules is that they go against purposes 1-2-4, because they actually force me to do calculations which I [I]never[/I] do with the core rules, with which I just switch the whole stat block and just keep an eye on mental score and proficiencies. Really, in our home game my [B]8-year-older[/B] is playing a Moon Druid and has no problems handling it! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Alternative Wildshape Rules
Top