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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kobold Stew" data-source="post: 7261096" data-attributes="member: 23484">I think I am failing to articulate the issue clearly, and for that I am sorry.  I'll try one more time. The Greeks do not have specific divinities for cultivated nature as opposed to uncultivated nature.  The binary division seen in the literary sources is between nomos and phusis, and while I know it is more complex than that in religious practice, the distinction holds for the most part. When it doesn't (as with pastoralism), it is shown to be distinctive or liminal explicitly. Further, it is not the case that Dionysus or Demeter are simply agriculture or fertility gods. Each is more complex, and has multiple spheres of influence depending on the cult title by which they are worshipped. (And there are more: Zeus Bromios [Rainy Zeus] is an agricultural version of Zeus, in a way that Zeus Ktesios [Zeus of Possessions] or Zeus Horkios [Zeus of Oaths] are not). And Greek worship was typically to a specific cult aspect of a god. For this understanding of Greek religion, see the chapter on polytheism in <a href="https://www.amazon.ca/Religion-Ancient-Greek-Louise-Zaidman/dp/0521423570/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508970558&sr=8-1&keywords=religion+in+the+ancient+greek+city" target="_blank">Religion in the Ancient Greek City</a>.The only exception that I can think of is Oporia ("Harvest") who appears as a personification in Aristophanes' comedy Peace. She and Theoria ("Festival") are (nude) female personifications of a harvest festival; to my knowledge there is no sense that she is worshipped in any way in real life, and is here used in a comedy for a specific literary purpose. Nor is it accurate simply to map Demeter onto the Roman Ceres or Dionysus onto the Roman Bacchus. The interpretation Romana is a convenient shorthand, but it isn't reflecting continuity of actual belief or narrative. (An easy example of this includes the virgin Athena being mapped onto Minerva the fertility god.) Roman religion is different. It does have distinct gods associated with the garden and not other types of vegetation. (Some of those gods in time do develop other spheres of influence, but they are not agricultural.) You made the claim that "the Romans didn't really do anything that the Greeks hadn't first" (in the context of religion). It may be that you believe that and aren't just being flippant. If that's the case, I'd suggest you look at the 2 vol. Religions of Rome by Mary Beard and John North, or John North's smaller book,<a href="https://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=north+roman+religion" target="_blank"> Roman Religion</a>. Both are well-written, well-supported with primary and secondary material. So we are left with my claim that, as distinct from other cultures, the Roman had specific gods (and associated religious practices) for gardens and "cultivated nature" as distinct form their gods for "uncultivated nature". (I'll add that the evidence points to this being from the early republic, before the emergence of Jupiter and the Greek-style pantheon). This is not paralleled in Greek culture, nor (so far as I can see) by the other examples you cite. (Unless there is evidence that the Green Man does not represent wild nature.) My initial point (post 26) was trying to support a cool idea that you posted -- one I liked and thought was interesting. I regret that it has not been read this way.</blockquote>

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