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<blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 5298384" data-attributes="member: 151">I guess I'm thinking the problem is not that you convince your players to not be murderous psychopaths than wonder why you're playing with three completely separate groups of them.&nbsp; I'd recommend that you run, not walk, over to the Gamers seeking Gamers part of the site and start looking.Now, as to the idea of why is combat, violence and yes, KILLING, such a big part of the game?&nbsp; A few reasons.&nbsp; First off, D&amp;D was born from a war game.&nbsp; Self-obvious, but worth remembering.&nbsp; Secondly, D&amp;D and many RPGs are specifically meant to recreate a long tradition of myths, tales, stories and fantasies of adventure.&nbsp; Many of those things center on violent interactions.&nbsp; Whether it be Jason and the Argonuats, Le Morte d'Arthur, The Fellowship of the Ring or The Walking Dead...the story of heroes battling monsters has compelled us for millennium.&nbsp; Games based on at least partly recreating this experience in game form is going to reflect their sources.Third, and this has been discussed but deserves reiterating, combat is the aspect of such games that requires the most adjudication.&nbsp;&nbsp; Unlike social interactions, which can have actual interfaces at the table, combat is almost entirely conceptual.&nbsp; You may use a funny voice or strange accent to pretend to be 'ze Baronn' and put the words in his mouth...but you're not going to reproduce his swordsmanship or spellcasting in combat with a minotaur.&nbsp; There has been more than one debate about the question of a charismatic player with a non-charismatic character or vice-versa...but generally a lot of rules are not needed to dictate a parlez with the lord of the castle and the PC's paladin...but games need more detail beyond &quot;I try to appeal to Lord Dimwitty's sense of duty to arrange for us to access Dorwin Pass&quot; for a combat encounter.None of this is to say that non-combat is BadWrongFun.&nbsp; Quite the opposite.&nbsp; Some of the best sessions of gaming I've ever HAD featured exaclty zero combat.&nbsp; But a lot of games and gamers WANT the violence.&nbsp; When I play Mutants and Masterminds, I don't want to play super desk-clerks.&nbsp; I want to play The Avengers.&nbsp; I want to kick bad-guys in the tail-feathers and send them packing.&nbsp; The exact mix and balance varies from group to group.&nbsp; I prefer a healthy mix of gameplay.&nbsp; Sometimes my group and I enjoy being detectives or navigating the high courts of powerful people.&nbsp; Sometimes they just wanna blow off some steam and murdalize some marauding irredeemable bad guys.Or, as one of my players puts it: &quot;...them orcs ain't gonna kill themselves!&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="WizarDru, post: 5298384, member: 151"] I guess I'm thinking the problem is not that you convince your players to not be murderous psychopaths than wonder why you're playing with three completely separate groups of them. I'd recommend that you run, not walk, over to the Gamers seeking Gamers part of the site and start looking. Now, as to the idea of why is combat, violence and yes, KILLING, such a big part of the game? A few reasons. First off, D&D was born from a war game. Self-obvious, but worth remembering. Secondly, D&D and many RPGs are specifically meant to recreate a long tradition of myths, tales, stories and fantasies of adventure. Many of those things center on violent interactions. Whether it be Jason and the Argonuats, Le Morte d'Arthur, The Fellowship of the Ring or The Walking Dead...the story of heroes battling monsters has compelled us for millennium. Games based on at least partly recreating this experience in game form is going to reflect their sources. Third, and this has been discussed but deserves reiterating, combat is the aspect of such games that requires the most adjudication. Unlike social interactions, which can have actual interfaces at the table, combat is almost entirely conceptual. You may use a funny voice or strange accent to pretend to be '[i]ze Baronn[/i]' and put the words in his mouth...but you're not going to reproduce his swordsmanship or spellcasting in combat with a minotaur. There has been more than one debate about the question of a charismatic player with a non-charismatic character or vice-versa...but generally a lot of rules are not needed to dictate a parlez with the lord of the castle and the PC's paladin...but games need more detail beyond "[i]I try to appeal to Lord Dimwitty's sense of duty to arrange for us to access Dorwin Pass[/i]" for a combat encounter. None of this is to say that non-combat is BadWrongFun. Quite the opposite. Some of the best sessions of gaming I've ever HAD featured exaclty zero combat. But a lot of games and gamers WANT the violence. When I play Mutants and Masterminds, I don't want to play super desk-clerks. I want to play The Avengers. I want to kick bad-guys in the tail-feathers and send them packing. The exact mix and balance varies from group to group. I prefer a healthy mix of gameplay. Sometimes my group and I enjoy being detectives or navigating the high courts of powerful people. Sometimes they just wanna blow off some steam and murdalize some marauding irredeemable bad guys. Or, as one of my players puts it: "[i]...them orcs ain't gonna kill [u]themselves![/u][/i][u][/u]" [/QUOTE]

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