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Message: <blockquote data-quote="swrushing" data-source="post: 1878860" data-attributes="member: 14140">A question for the GM in question...Were you unaware of the, somewhat obvious, dissatisfaction within your players about the long and, seemingly, mandated quest, about their perception of not being "allowed" to win for any length of time, and so forth?If so, if you were aware of all this, it seems the "next reversal of fortune" was unwise, as it drove the already tense situation over the brink.if not, if this all came as news to you, you have a much bigger problem than a single session's ending.My general rule is that when players leave pissed or upset or angry AT ME, i have done the wrong thing as a GM. Sure, on occasion they leave mad at my NPCs. On occasion they even leave ticked off at themselves. those are all a part of roleplaying in a challenging but enjoyable and "fair" environment.But, if they leave seeing ME as the bad guy, ME as the force to be overcome, ME as the opposition stripping them of victory... then I have erred, its my bad, regardless of what anyone i describe it to over the internet says.The "i did not know before hand what they would do" is a biggie to me. Scripting a reversal-of-fortune on this big a scale needs to be a deliberate, seriously thought out and intentional element of the story, not a sudden "hey wont this be fun." From your fiance's description, this result not only whammies the interrelation with NPCs they had some good reason to suspect they could trust (good skills at sensing deception and making alliances and no hints of deception gained even while suspicious) but also resulted, not surprisingly, in direct dissension within the party characters, due to one of them being "in league" with the gnomes.I would say that this type of reversal, especially if not the first, particularly given the player's feelings about the plotlines, deserved more than an on-the-fly decision about it and needed instead to be a calculated part of the overall story, one with potential clues given as to the "what was about to happen" so that once it occurred, the players did not come away with a sense of "we wuz robbed" BY THE GM, but rather BY THE NPCs.Simple Rule: if it loses you players you wanted to keep, if it pisses off players you want happy, or if it puts them in opposition with you as opposed to your characters, it was the wrong move, no matter how well you can justify it to the millions of readers on the net. The number of people you need to convince its justified and right all fit in your living room (or basement or whereever you play) and the rest of us do not matter one whit.good luck and I hope it works out for you and yours.</blockquote>

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