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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Malic" data-source="post: 1879628" data-attributes="member: 23799">Well, it's a bit academic us arguing about it really, as it is really the business of the group, who know all the circumstances ... and accordingly the following comments are not meant to be disrespectful to the players involved, I know I don't know the full story ... but hypothetically, based on what we have heard here, I totally disagree that there was no way the party could have seen this coming. A Sense Motive check is not a substitute for the PCs thinking about the situation. First is the importance of the item itself to several parties, and the fact that the group was aware that the gnomes had their own plans for it and that the gnomes knew the party's plans were different, and this situation had not been worked out. Then there is the fact that the party knew that not all the gnomes had the same attitude to the party, and in fact some were unfriendly. Even if there were no other gnomes involved and the ones they were talking to were 100% sincere at the time, and then changed their minds ... as an artifact this is one of the most valuable objects in the world, that is a heck of a lot of temptation to put in front of anyone, with the guards helpfully neutralised and a getaway vehicle waiting. Now perhaps there were reasons the party would believe the gnomes would be as loyal as their closest family about it, but I haven't read any here.This is totally seperate from the other campaign/player enjoyment issues that seem to have built up, of course.I don't have a problem with a GM doing something he hasn't planned in advance, if it is consistent with the drivers that have been established in advance, and doesn't contradict the past. It sounds like this example qualifies.</blockquote>

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