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Message: <blockquote data-quote="irdeggman" data-source="post: 1886088" data-attributes="member: 16285">I for one never said the skills were misapplied. I have said that IMO the DM was at fault by not providing the PCs an opportunity to "smell out" the betrayal.The betraying happened in the "back room" and totally out of the players' control or influence. Basically they had no idea there were other gnomes that had to be dealt with other than the ones they were negotiating with. As far as I can tell the gnomes that "decided" to betray the PCs never had any interface with them at all - hence no opportunity to determine that things would go wrong.I would repeat that every indication given the PCs (the response from the sense motive check and reaction by the gnomes to the diplomacy) indicated that this was indeed the correct thing to do and was as safe as it could get.The only reason I can tell from the posts that the players' felt uneasy was because of the number of times they had been screwed over or crossed by other NPCS (based on their comments).Now how do balance that past history with the fresh data being provided? Heck even a spell (that they couldn't cast at the time for various reasons) would have given them the same information as the sense motive/diplomacy checks.</blockquote>