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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 1894528" data-attributes="member: 18280">Okay, then, back to Ambrus.Should a session never end on a downer?I don't think ending on a downer is a serious problem.  I do understand, though, that some downers may seem so overwhelming as to demoralize the entire group.Is it always the DM's fault when a player gets upset?Well, obviously not.  However, it is almost always worth the DM's time to consider whether or not it is his fault.  When the game ends with all the players upset (even if some get over it later) enough to make the DM feel like the Nazis at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark, then it seems pretty clear that the DM in question should at least feel partly responsible.A lot of the argument on this last point seems to be of the "DM's always responsible" vs. "What about player responsibility?" type.  Granted, a lot of people out there never feel responsible for their actions, which can make people polarize on this issue.  The fact is that when a game degenerates, it is rarely (if ever) entirely the fault of one party.  Very likely, both the DM and the players bear responsibility.A quick read-through of the summary I provided (which is all from posts by the DM or players involved, with some scant editting) demonstrates that the players did not make use of all the information that the DM provided.  It also demonstrates that the DM did not provide as much information as he could have.  In the latter case, there is sufficient grounds to believe that the DM intentionally withheld information....but there is also sufficient grounds to believe that the players should have known that this was the case.From reading through these posts, I honestly believe that most of the posters actually hold a more moderate, less polarized, view than the last couple of pages would suggest.Granting that Ambrus could have handled the reversal better, do we really believe that he handled it so badly that he should stop DMing or reverse the decision, as some suggested near the begining?  Or is this reaction merely the result of not having all of the information together at the same time?RC</blockquote>

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