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<blockquote data-quote="Infiniti2000" data-source="post: 2626516" data-attributes="member: 31734">That's the key to understanding how broken (meaning unplayable) it can be.&nbsp; Think of when (for example) a sole 5th level wizard (evoker, Int 16, so 3 3rd-level spells) catches your party asleep (out in the open or in your rooms, whatever).&nbsp; He readies to toss fireball (arguably no save while asleep), and then on the 'second' surprise round drops another fireball.&nbsp; Then, with improved initiative and buffed with cat's grace, he wins initiative and drops a third fireball.&nbsp; All before the party can act.&nbsp; This will likely kill even a large party.&nbsp; Sure, two fireballs can kill a lot of people (if you take out the 'second' surprise round), but it's sure a lot better than three.Fortunately, most heroic parties don't leave themselves undefended like that, so my example is suspect, but it's only intended to illustrate the point.Your alternative is acceptable.&nbsp; Getting into position seems to be want you are attempting (you don't seem to be attempting the exploit I point out), so if you can do it outside of combat without your opponents knowing about it, then you can indeed get a surprise round of attacks before initiative, while you're in position.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Infiniti2000, post: 2626516, member: 31734"] That's the key to understanding how broken (meaning unplayable) it can be. Think of when (for example) a sole 5th level wizard (evoker, Int 16, so 3 3rd-level spells) catches your party asleep (out in the open or in your rooms, whatever). He readies to toss fireball (arguably no save while asleep), and then on the 'second' surprise round drops another fireball. Then, with improved initiative and buffed with cat's grace, he wins initiative and drops a third fireball. All before the party can act. This will likely kill even a large party. Sure, two fireballs can kill a lot of people (if you take out the 'second' surprise round), but it's sure a lot better than three. Fortunately, most heroic parties don't leave themselves undefended like that, so my example is suspect, but it's only intended to illustrate the point. Your alternative is acceptable. Getting into position seems to be want you are attempting (you don't seem to be attempting the exploit I point out), so if you can do it outside of combat without your opponents knowing about it, then you can indeed get a surprise round of attacks before initiative, while you're in position. [/QUOTE]

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