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<blockquote data-quote="buddhafrog" data-source="post: 5281441" data-attributes="member: 86605">I understand these thoughts a lot and they may be mostly correct.&nbsp; But if done right, I think it can work well.&nbsp; Like I said, I will try to make it work in my game.(again, if the scene isn't too time consuming)There have been tons of movies where the &quot;hero&quot; is over taken, but the manner in which he fights back gave him a lot of choice/respect/freedom of spirit.&nbsp; In some way, being willing to fight back against terrible odds is much more reflective of real choice than knowing that you are generally safe.&nbsp; I would hope that with some good rolling and no fear, the PC's could take out some of the guards.&nbsp; Their actions do matter, and not only in the terms of &quot;I win&quot; or &quot;I lose&quot; but rather that this is my &quot;character&quot; that is multi-dimensional and complex.Lastly, for those that like gritty games and fret somewhat that it is too hard to die in 4e, and that this diminished threat takes a little out of the game: this is a nice way to start a game and let the characters know that they are indeed vulnerable.&nbsp; *Not all players want this type of game*, but many do.I've used some dream sequences where the players fought to the death against forces that hunted them -- they didn't know it was a dream of course.&nbsp; You could call this ultimate railroading as well I suppose.&nbsp; But it worked splendidly and added further dimension to the story and the psyche of the PC.&nbsp; The players loved it as well.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="buddhafrog, post: 5281441, member: 86605"] I understand these thoughts a lot and they may be mostly correct. But if done right, I think it can work well. Like I said, I will try to make it work in my game. (again, if the scene isn't too time consuming) There have been tons of movies where the "hero" is over taken, but the manner in which he fights back gave him a lot of choice/respect/freedom of spirit. In some way, being willing to fight back against terrible odds is much more reflective of real choice than knowing that you are generally safe. I would hope that with some good rolling and no fear, the PC's could take out some of the guards. Their actions do matter, and not only in the terms of "I win" or "I lose" but rather that this is my "character" that is multi-dimensional and complex. Lastly, for those that like gritty games and fret somewhat that it is too hard to die in 4e, and that this diminished threat takes a little out of the game: this is a nice way to start a game and let the characters know that they are indeed vulnerable. *Not all players want this type of game*, but many do. I've used some dream sequences where the players fought to the death against forces that hunted them -- they didn't know it was a dream of course. You could call this ultimate railroading as well I suppose. But it worked splendidly and added further dimension to the story and the psyche of the PC. The players loved it as well. [/QUOTE]

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