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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Morgan_Scott82" data-source="post: 4562274" data-attributes="member: 79594">The days of thinking of double weapons as two weapons that can have seperate properties and be enchanged separately are over, the double axe is a single weapon with the defensive and off hand properties.  I'm not sure that I agree with you here. You're certainly correct that the Tempest Fighter is broken with the addition of double weapons, but I'm still not certain that it's balenced with out them. To find out lets examine five cases, a tempest fighter with two shortswords, a one handed fighter with a longsword and shield, a one handed fighter with a battleaxe and shield, a two handed fighter with a greatsword and a two handed fighter with a maul. Lets assume they're all wearing the best armor that takes advantage of their class features, and have the same abilitys scores (18 Str), lets further assume that they're all 1st level and are attacking the same first level soldier (AC 17). With these assumptions the defining elements are the proficiency bonus and base damage of their weapons, lets look at each case: Tempest fighter with two shortswords.AC: 17Proficiency bonus: +3Total attack bonus: +8Damage: Range 7-12, Average 9.5Chance to hit the example soldier: 65%Expected Damage output: 6.175 Fighter with Shield and LongswordAC: 18Proficiency bonus: +3Total attack bonus: +8Damage: Range 5-12, Average 8.5Chance to hit the example soldier: 65%Expected damage output: 5.525 Fighter with Battleaxe and ShieldAC: 18Proficiency bonus: +2Total attack bonus: +7Damage: Range 5-14 Average 9.5Chance to hit the example soldier: 60%Expected damage output: 5.7 Fighter with GreatswordAC: 17Proficiency bonus: +3Total attack bonus: +8Damage: Range 5-14, Average 9.5Chance to hit the example soldier: 65%Expected damage output: 6.175 Fighter with MaulAC: 17Proficiency bonus: +2Total attack bonus: +7Damage: Range 6-16 Average 11Chance to hit the example soldier: 60%Expected damage output: 6.6 Hmmm I guess you're right with PHB only weapons, the tempest fighter is balenced. I think other AV weapons might be a problem as well, not just the double weapons. Specifically anything with the defensive property since it allows the tempest fighter to match the AC of the sword and board fighter and the damage of the greatweapon fighter (this could be mitigated if the bonus from the defensive weapon property was rephrased as a shield bonus rather than an unnamed bonus). Edit: As a point of reference here's what an Urgosh tempest fighter would look like in the above comparison: AC 18Proficinecy bonus: +2Total attack bonus: +7Damage: Range 7-18, Average 12.5Chance to hit the example soldier: 60%Expected damage output: 7.5</blockquote>

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