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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lord Sessadore" data-source="post: 4562334" data-attributes="member: 57255">Something you missed: Scale (+7 AC) plus a heavy shield (+2 AC and Ref) gives the sword-and-board and axe-and-board fighters an AC of 19, as well as a Reflex defense +2 higher than the others. That puts them ahead as a pure defender, both because their AC is ahead (albiet only by 1 point), but neither TWD or the Defensive weapon property grants a bonus to Reflex. However, to properly compare the expected damage of a double-weapon tempest fighter to the other kinds of fighters, remember that all double weapons require a feat. So instead of comparing the Double Axe** user to normal martial weapons, you need to compare it to superior weapons (and since we're using double weapons, I'm going to use other weapons from AV too). Giving you something more like this (each fighter spends 1 feat on a Weapon Proficiency):Tempest fighter with two Katar*AC: 17Proficiency bonus: +3Total attack bonus: +8Damage: Range 7-12, Average 9.5Chance to hit the example soldier: 60% hit + 5% critExpected Damage output: 5.7 + 0.775 = 6.475 Fighter with Shield and Bastard SwordAC: 19Proficiency bonus: +3Total attack bonus: +8Damage: Range 5-14, Average 9.5Chance to hit the example soldier: 60% hit + 5% critExpected damage output: 5.7 + 0.7 = 6.4 Fighter with Waraxe and ShieldAC: 19Proficiency bonus: +2Total attack bonus: +7Damage: Range 5-16 Average 10.5Chance to hit the example soldier: 55% + 5% critExpected damage output: 5.775 + 0.8 = 6.575 Fighter with FullbladeAC: 17Proficiency bonus: +3Total attack bonus: +8Damage: Range 5-16, Average 10.5Chance to hit the example soldier: 60% hit + 5% critExpected damage output: 6.3 + 1.125 = 7.425 Fighter with Mordenkrad (superior 2h hammer)AC: 17Proficiency bonus: +2Total attack bonus: +7Damage: Range 8-16, Average 12Chance to hit the example soldier: 55% hit + 5% critExpected damage output: 6.6 + 0.8 = 7.4Fighter with Execution AxeAC: 17Proficiency bonus: +2Total attack bonus: +7Damage: Range 7-16, Average 11.5Chance to hit example soldier: 55% hit + 5% critExpected damage output: 6.325 + 1.175 = 7.5Tempest fighter with Double Axe (off-hand side)**AC 18Proficiency bonus: +2Total attack bonus: +7Damage: Range 7-16, Average 11.5Chance to hit the example soldier: 55% hit + 5% critExpected damage output: 6.325 + 0.8 = 7.125*Katar was the best I could find as an upgrade to short swords. The kukri in AV is still 1d6 and brutal 1, but only +2 prof, so I felt katar was a better comparison. In any case, I don't think the tempest fighter has good options for superior, off-hand weapons - same expected damage as normal fighter with a bastard sword, just slightly higher crits.**Read WotC_Logan's post just before I posted, so I switched the ugrosh to a double axe, using the off-hand side (since that is now the highest damage off-hand weapon).So, with Wotc_Logan's recent clarification as to the intent of double weapons, we see that using a double weapon puts the tempest fighter using a double weapon somewhere between a normal sword-and-board fighter and a normal 2h fighter. I think that's fair, don't you?</blockquote>

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