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<blockquote data-quote="Doug McCrae" data-source="post: 6004551" data-attributes="member: 21169">Compared to the pre-3e editions, 4e is fairly strong on giving PCs and monsters the same stats. In 4e, monsters have the six attributes - str, dex, con, int, wis, cha - which is not the case in 1e or 2e. This consistency is a feature I really liked when I saw it for the first time in RuneQuest. It's kind of weird that in older editions we have no idea what the strength of a gryphon, or bulette or dragon is. We only know the numbers for giants, from the magic items.However, even in older editions there are some stats that any creature must have to be a real D&amp;D being, such as hit points, armor class, and so forth. You could have an orc that didn't have a character class or a strength score, but you couldn't have an orc that lacked a value for hit points.EDIT: That said, there were a few weird monsters, particularly in 1e, that lacked these stats. One example is the trilloch in the Fiend Folio, which has values of 'Nil' or 'Not applicable' for almost everything. Its Hit Dice and Armor Class are both 'Not applicable' for instance. I always felt there was something wrong with this type of entry, that these things weren't really monsters at all, and shouldn't pretend to be. The trilloch is more like a bizarre environmental effect. It's almost impossible to detect, makes non-intelligent creatures more likely to attack, and grants bonuses to all combatants' to hit and damage scores. In true sci-fi style, it feeds off the life force of the dying.EDIT EDIT: Great excuse to start fights though. You can just punch someone in the face and claim a trilloch made you do it. &quot;Don't you realise this whole area's infested with trillochs? Damn things are everywhere!&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Doug McCrae, post: 6004551, member: 21169"] Compared to the pre-3e editions, 4e is fairly strong on giving PCs and monsters the same stats. In 4e, monsters have the six attributes - str, dex, con, int, wis, cha - which is not the case in 1e or 2e. This consistency is a feature I really liked when I saw it for the first time in RuneQuest. It's kind of weird that in older editions we have no idea what the strength of a gryphon, or bulette or dragon is. We only know the numbers for giants, from the magic items. However, even in older editions there are some stats that any creature must have to be a real D&D being, such as hit points, armor class, and so forth. You could have an orc that didn't have a character class or a strength score, but you couldn't have an orc that lacked a value for hit points. EDIT: That said, there were a few weird monsters, particularly in 1e, that lacked these stats. One example is the trilloch in the Fiend Folio, which has values of 'Nil' or 'Not applicable' for almost everything. Its Hit Dice and Armor Class are both 'Not applicable' for instance. I always felt there was something wrong with this type of entry, that these things weren't really monsters at all, and shouldn't pretend to be. The trilloch is more like a bizarre environmental effect. It's almost impossible to detect, makes non-intelligent creatures more likely to attack, and grants bonuses to all combatants' to hit and damage scores. In true sci-fi style, it feeds off the life force of the dying. EDIT EDIT: Great excuse to start fights though. You can just punch someone in the face and claim a trilloch made you do it. "Don't you realise this whole area's infested with trillochs? Damn things are everywhere!" [/QUOTE]

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