Ambush Trick

[BobTheNob]

From Essentials, thief ability "Ambush Trick". At will, move up to speed and get CA against targets within 5 that have no adjacent allies.

Ok, so lets say I am already adjacent to a target and its just him and me. I use ambush trick and move...zero (It does say "Up to" your speed).

Does this make Ambush trick a dead-easy way to get CA? (Im talking simple, the days of flanking are OVER)

 

[twilsemail]

It's basically an at-will utility that conditionally grants CA. It's nice, but you've still gotta meet the conditions. I wouldn't say flanking is gone as you could use Thug's trick to get into flanking and have a better chance of getting another attack this round. Or Unbalancing trick while flanking and have a better chance of keeping them around a begging for an attack from the warlord.

Most of the tricks are solid, IMO.

 

[occam]

Does this make Ambush trick a dead-easy way to get CA? (Im talking simple, the days of flanking are OVER)

Yes. Speaking as a D&D Encounters DM, it's kind of annoying. It seems too easy; you should have to work to get CA, I think.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Hmm, to at least make it a little more challenging, DM houserules that you have to move at least 1 square? (shift would be fine)

Just a thought...

 

[malraux]

Hmm, to at least make it a little more challenging, DM houserules that you have to move at least 1 square? (shift would be fine)

Just a thought...

I would have it be a move with minimum distance 1. Making it part of a shift removes some tactical considerations (ie, do i give up an OA in exchange for CA).

 

[BobTheNob]

Yes. Speaking as a D&D Encounters DM, it's kind of annoying. It seems too easy; you should have to work to get CA, I think.

Yea, that was what I was thinking when I posted this.

I sort of try to lay the rogue side by side with the Slayer, who has to do NOTHING to get their damage bonus and ask myself whether, if the rogue didnt have to do anything at all to get the damage output, would they be about the same?

I think, on average, they would be close enough. I dont have a problem with this power as is, cause at least the target needs to be singled out, I just found it...funny.

 

[Mengu]

Looking at how easy it is for a monk or a barbarian to get their extra damage feature, rogue's shouldn't have a difficult time with it. The new movement tricks do a good job of accomplishing this.

One of the main things with flanking is not only are you gaining combat advantage, but you're also letting one of your allies gain it easily too. And there are other movement tricks that let you do more damage such as Acrobat's Trick, not to mention a number of controlling tricks such as Unbalancing Trick. So there is still plenty of incentive to get combat advantage without using a trick to do it.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

I think you are kind of missing the point. The Thief DOES have to do something to earn that CA from Ambush Trick -- he has to pick an opponent that has no adjacent allies. That could be very much non-trivial.

Tactical Trick has the same issue you are concerned about, though the flavor doesn't seem quite as problematic.

Anyway, so what if the Thief doesn't actually move to a new square?. Instead, he is ducking and jinking around in a small area -- lots of head fakes and "hey, what's that behind you?" stuff. The Thief is so good at that sort of misdirection that he doesn't even have to move his feet.

Also, bear in mind that the Thief is losing out on the move action. It can't be used for changing weapons, pulling out or drinking a potion, making a skill check, etc. And of course, as has been pointed out by many others, if the Thief happens to be dazed, it can't be pulled off at all.

I wouldn't sweat it.

 

[occam]

I think you are kind of missing the point. The Thief DOES have to do something to earn that CA from Ambush Trick -- he has to pick an opponent that has no adjacent allies. That could be very much non-trivial.

Sure, there's some limit, but it's been utterly trivial in my experience with it so far; there's always a lone opponent somewhere. (If there isn't, then the enemies are bunching up for the wizard!) It's generally less of a limitation than a ranger's quarry or warlock's curse.

One thing to remember is that CA doesn't just provide the rogue's damage bonus, but an attack bonus as well. Not only does the rogue already do pretty decent damage for a striker, but he's more accurate.

Maybe I'm now a 4e old-timer(!), but I think you should have to work a little bit to earn combat advantage. Ambush Trick makes it nearly a non-issue. I think what bothers me most is that CA doesn't seem special anymore; gaining combat advantage doesn't make you feel good because you pulled off at least a moderately interesting tactical maneuver. Call out "Ambush Trick!" and you just get it, pretty much for free. Lame.

 

[Obryn]

It's been non-trivial to use for my party's Rogue a few times. Mostly when she needs to stand, shift, or do something else with her Move action. She swaps between sword & bow, though, which adds to the complexity.

-O