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<blockquote data-quote="Spatula" data-source="post: 4066902" data-attributes="member: 2198">In what way can you not make a &quot;brutal thug&quot; rogue in 3e?That's not even WOTC's interpretation of sneak attacks, given that you can do it with a sling (but not a club!).&nbsp; Or a crossbow bolt, but not an arrow...I don't see any actual change here, as far as your argument goes.&nbsp; Rogues already &quot;felt different&quot; in weapon selection in that they used rapiers (used by no other core martial class) or paired short swords (ditto - since we're optimizing for damage, 2WF rangers would use d8/d6 combos).&nbsp; Now they'll be using daggers (+1 to hit) or short swords (+1 to dmg, assuming daggers are still d4 and short swords are still d6).&nbsp; So we just swapped the rapier for the dagger, basically.&nbsp; Which is fine, but it doesn't make the rogue feel any more different in relation to others classes than it already did. (edit: in terms of weapon selection; the rogue 'powers' obviously give the class a different feel in play)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Spatula, post: 4066902, member: 2198"] In what way can you not make a "brutal thug" rogue in 3e? That's not even WOTC's interpretation of sneak attacks, given that you can do it with a sling (but not a club!). Or a crossbow bolt, but not an arrow... I don't see any actual change here, as far as your argument goes. Rogues already "felt different" in weapon selection in that they used rapiers (used by no other core martial class) or paired short swords (ditto - since we're optimizing for damage, 2WF rangers would use d8/d6 combos). Now they'll be using daggers (+1 to hit) or short swords (+1 to dmg, assuming daggers are still d4 and short swords are still d6). So we just swapped the rapier for the dagger, basically. Which is fine, but it doesn't make the rogue feel any more different in relation to others classes than it already did. (edit: in terms of weapon selection; the rogue 'powers' obviously give the class a different feel in play) [/QUOTE]

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