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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6899554" data-attributes="member: 12731">Oh boy. Not that it isn't a good question, but that there are very many layers of answers...On one hand, the stats for 5th edition demon lords are naive bordering on useless, since they're written seemingly without any notion of the strategies a competent medium- to high level party will execute that will defeat one without it ever getting a single attack in. Plainly speaking, any high level monster (and especially epic threats like Demon Lords) must have ways to defeat simple kiting and delaying tactics; otherwise they could never have risen that far above a Dretch. Put bluntly: anything much less powerful than spend-an-action-to-teleport is risking ignoble defeat against veteran players.On the second hand, you'd think plane shifting would be a trifle for something so powerful as a Demon Lord, since it's a spell available to any mid-level party.On the third hand, there are a multitude of story reasons, all good, most completely unstated, for Demon Lords not being able to shift planes at will. Better than &quot;perhaps they don't want to&quot;, that is. Transcending the boundary between the Material Plane and something like the Abyss must be a nearly unbridgeable gulf, spells notwithstanding. And there must be some very good administrative reasons why a Demon Lord spends 99.9% of its time on its home layer.So in the end - I actually think that strategy should work well enough.It's just a bit cheesy in that you need to view what that wizard did as something utterly exceptional. Rather than something the wizard can do twice a day, every day of the week, that is. A hard enough sell, I'll admit.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 6899554, member: 12731"] Oh boy. Not that it isn't a good question, but that there are very many layers of answers... On one hand, the stats for 5th edition demon lords are naive bordering on useless, since they're written seemingly without any notion of the strategies a competent medium- to high level party will execute that will defeat one without it ever getting a single attack in. Plainly speaking, any high level monster (and especially epic threats like Demon Lords) must have ways to defeat simple kiting and delaying tactics; otherwise they could never have risen that far above a Dretch. Put bluntly: anything much less powerful than spend-an-action-to-teleport is risking ignoble defeat against veteran players. On the second hand, you'd think plane shifting would be a trifle for something so powerful as a Demon Lord, since it's a spell available to any mid-level party. On the third hand, there are a multitude of story reasons, all good, most completely unstated, for Demon Lords not being able to shift planes at will. Better than "perhaps they don't want to", that is. Transcending the boundary between the Material Plane and something like the Abyss must be a nearly unbridgeable gulf, spells notwithstanding. And there must be some very good administrative reasons why a Demon Lord spends 99.9% of its time on its home layer. So in the end - I actually think that strategy should work well enough. It's just a bit cheesy in that you need to view what that wizard did as something utterly exceptional. Rather than something the wizard can do twice a day, every day of the week, that is. A hard enough sell, I'll admit. [/QUOTE]

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