Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Zustiur" data-source="post: 5987482" data-attributes="member: 1544">I think that is one of the ways that 4E shoots itself in the foot. The effects are simple to understand and keep track of, but they chop and change way too frequently. This is one of the reasons why I'm pushing for longer spell duration. I want a spell to have a more meaningful effect than 'x for 1 round'. My mechanic is an attempt at merging 3E duration length with 4E's attack/defence/save structure. This is also why (in other threads) I generally push for less effect creating powers to be available at any given time. i.e. 'mundane' fighters and Vancian wizards.This is true of any system. Even 4E once you get into situations where someone can alter the save chance. Not to mention this eternal problem:&quot;Ok, that ends my turn, so I'll roll my save. I rolled a 10, so I saved.&quot;&quot;Which effect were you rolling for?&quot;&quot;Umm...&quot;At the moment (4E) we write down things like:&quot;Dazed, save ends&quot; and &quot;Stunned until the beginning of the source's next turn&quot; and &quot;-2 to the next attack roll&quot;.All other things being equal, I'd expect that to become:&quot;Dazed DC17&quot; and &quot;Stunned 1 round&quot; and &quot;-2 to attacks, 1 round&quot;.The less you have to note down, the better.If I was simply 'patching' 4E to make it simpler and more satisfying, I think my first target would be the miniscule difference between, &quot;Until the beginning of your next turn&quot; and, &quot;Until the end of your next turn&quot;. Both are unweildy sentences, and the difference comes down to &quot;Do I personally benefit from the effect?&quot;If the focus is supposed to be on teamwork, the answer to that question should always be, &quot;no&quot;. Therefore all single round effects should be, &quot;until the beginning of your next turn&quot;. This could then be explained once in the rules and listed in powers simply as, &quot;Until your next turn&quot; or better yet, &quot;for one round&quot;.That is a concern which I don't have an answer for at present. Part of me says, &quot;of course there must be effects that last only one round&quot;, but another part of my says, &quot;such as?&quot;Once I've identified a spell or effect that should only last one round, I'll re-think this, but for now I'm assuming that single round effects will disappear.That is certainly an option. Not one I personally find pleasing though. I do want that effect of, &quot;I rolled really well on my attack, and that means something.&quot;Combined with the above thoughts; my notation would become:&quot;Dazed DC17&quot; and &quot;Stunned DC13&quot; and &quot;-2 to attacks DC16&quot;.Actually, knowing me and abbreviations, it would become:&quot;Daze 17&quot; and &quot;Stun 13&quot; and &quot;-2 att 16&quot;.If I can get rid of &quot;EOYNT&quot; and &quot;BOYNT&quot;, I'll see that as an improvement.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Zustiur, post: 5987482, member: 1544"] I think that is one of the ways that 4E shoots itself in the foot. The effects are simple to understand and keep track of, but they chop and change way too frequently. This is one of the reasons why I'm pushing for longer spell duration. I want a spell to have a more meaningful effect than 'x for 1 round'. My mechanic is an attempt at merging 3E duration length with 4E's attack/defence/save structure. This is also why (in other threads) I generally push for less effect creating powers to be available at any given time. i.e. 'mundane' fighters and Vancian wizards. This is true of any system. Even 4E once you get into situations where someone can alter the save chance. Not to mention this eternal problem: "Ok, that ends my turn, so I'll roll my save. I rolled a 10, so I saved." "Which effect were you rolling for?" "Umm..." At the moment (4E) we write down things like: "Dazed, save ends" and "Stunned until the beginning of the source's next turn" and "-2 to the next attack roll". All other things being equal, I'd expect that to become: "Dazed DC17" and "Stunned 1 round" and "-2 to attacks, 1 round". The less you have to note down, the better. If I was simply 'patching' 4E to make it simpler and more satisfying, I think my first target would be the miniscule difference between, "Until the beginning of your next turn" and, "Until the end of your next turn". Both are unweildy sentences, and the difference comes down to "Do I personally benefit from the effect?" If the focus is supposed to be on teamwork, the answer to that question should always be, "no". Therefore all single round effects should be, "until the beginning of your next turn". This could then be explained once in the rules and listed in powers simply as, "Until your next turn" or better yet, "for one round". That is a concern which I don't have an answer for at present. Part of me says, "of course there must be effects that last only one round", but another part of my says, "such as?" Once I've identified a spell or effect that should only last one round, I'll re-think this, but for now I'm assuming that single round effects will disappear. That is certainly an option. Not one I personally find pleasing though. I do want that effect of, "I rolled really well on my attack, and that [I]means something.[/I]" Combined with the above thoughts; my notation would become: "Dazed DC17" and "Stunned DC13" and "-2 to attacks DC16". Actually, knowing me and abbreviations, it would become: "Daze 17" and "Stun 13" and "-2 att 16". If I can get rid of "EOYNT" and "BOYNT", I'll see that as an improvement. [/QUOTE]

Verification